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Old 31st October 2007, 09:16 PM   #1
Paulc
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Smile Planing threshold with 7.5 sails

Hello,

what would be the low end planing threshold for an advanced intermediate sailor (82kg) when using a futura 111, futura 122 or futura 133 with a 7.5 sail? stock fins for the boards, same 7.5 sail on each. does good sail pumping skills make the planing difference less? also what is the trade off on the powered sailing side for these three boards and the same 7.5 sail? thank you for the insight.

cheers
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Old 1st November 2007, 09:03 PM   #2
PG
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Good pumping technique definitively makes the difference in board smaller. Maybe the F122 is closest to the sweetspot of the 7.5 sail, and thus most efficient.

But I think that it matters more what type of sail you pick, if it is a Serverne Glide or a traditional 7.5 sail. With the Glide 7.5 you have as much planing power as with a 8.5 regular sail (according to Severne, and verified by the German Surf magazine).

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Old 2nd November 2007, 04:09 AM   #3
Ken
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Paul C,

While I have no experience with the Futura boards, from what I understand about their design and projected use, I will estimate the planing thresholds with a 7.5 sail:

I am 80kg and have been winsurfing for 24 years on all types equipment.

1. F111 = 12-14 knots
2. F122 = 11-13 knots
3. F133 = 10-12 knots

This assumes that you have good pumping skills. The difference in pumping or not pumping is about 2-4 knots of wind, meaning that if the wind can push you up on plane with no pumping in 14 knots, then with pumping, you could possibly get on plane in 10-12knots.

The above estimates are in the ball park, but certainly could be up for debate. There are lots of variables that impact planing - fresh or salt water / board design / sailor skill / sailor weight / sail design / water state (flat - choppy) / direction of chop / steady or variable winds & fin size.

"Direction of chop" means that if the chop is NOT running directly in line with the wind, which is pretty common on fresh water lakes, it is easier to plane heading into the chop than running with it. When the chop turns in to bigger waves, then just the opposite can be true (pump to surf down the swell to gain speed and plane).

Hope this helps,

Ken
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Old 2nd November 2007, 06:38 AM   #4
Floyd
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At 82k and with only (only???) a 7.5 I think 133 might be beyond optimum width for early planing.You might find the 122 planes just as early (if not earlier?) than 133 if you do limit yourself to the 7.5.(its my biggest sail size aswell)
I know someone will disagree with this comment but I`m pretty sure that there is an optimum width for a given sail size/weight.If you go above it (width) you are just gaining extra drag.
The 122 is still a wide board and will carry 7.5 easy.I`d guess around 12 knots minimum.
The 122 will definitely give you the widest wind range.(over 133 )
To be honest I think I`d go 111 at your weight ! You might lose a knot on bottom end but you will enjoy the 15 knot+ days much more.
Its hard to call on pumping;if you pump like me you will lowethreshold of each board by a knot or 2.If you are good at pumping (and fit!) you might knock as much as 5 knots off.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 02:57 AM   #5
Paulc
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Thank you PG, Ken and Floyd,

Floyd is getting at what i was wondering. i have a 10.0 and an F-type 158 for the low wind days. my next size sail is 7.5. i want to get off the ftype asap and be on the next board down with the 7.5. I was thinking a Futura 111/122 would be best at 68/72 wide. i'm not sure of the marginal difference between the 111/122/133 for low wind planing with the 7.5 and my 82kg weight. the optimum "width for my sail and weight" was exactly what i was wondering. i have a smaller kombat board for 6.0 and down sailing also. looks like i better get some more pumping skills .

thanks for the help and any more comments are welcome
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Old 3rd November 2007, 09:50 PM   #6
jgf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulc View Post
Thank you PG, Ken and Floyd,

Floyd is getting at what i was wondering. i have a 10.0 and an F-type 158 for the low wind days. my next size sail is 7.5. i want to get off the ftype asap and be on the next board down with the 7.5. I was thinking a Futura 111/122 would be best at 68/72 wide. i'm not sure of the marginal difference between the 111/122/133 for low wind planing with the 7.5 and my 82kg weight. the optimum "width for my sail and weight" was exactly what i was wondering. i have a smaller kombat board for 6.0 and down sailing also. looks like i better get some more pumping skills .

thanks for the help and any more comments are welcome
I had the same question - I have an 80L wave board (good up to 5.5), and a Formula 159 (I have a 10.0, and 11.0). So, I needed a board in between. I was replacing an old-style (narrow) fast freeride, that only worked with sails up to 6.5 - I had to jump from 6.5 to 10.0, and often had to sail the formula when I'd have preferred something smaller.

I got the Futura 111, and will get a 7.5 for it.

I never really considered the 122, but did consider the 101. The Futuras are very wide, and I'm not 100% sure I got the right one. The 111 is a big board for powered-up 6.5, but I'm sure I'll be happy to have the width in light 7.5 conditions, so I guess I did the right thing.

If your Kombat will handle 6.0, then the 111 will probably not be too big, because you will start with 7.5 on it - which I would guess is the "sweetspot" for the 111. Should you go for the 122? - hard to say. You are heavier (I am ~73kg), but I would guess that he sweetspot for the 122 is more like 8.0 or 8.5.


jeff
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Old 4th November 2007, 12:31 AM   #7
DaveQ
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Default Planing threshold with 7.5 sails

Paulc,

Sorry to respond to this thread with info from a 71 kg sailor, and on a different board,(iS122) but I can tell you that with the iS122 at my weight using a 7.6 MauiSails TR2 I am planing in 10-11 knots.

I have not sailed a Futura, and I am a good 10kg lighter than you, but I would guess that you should be planing in as little as 13 knots if you are able to get any advantage out of pumping or using the small chop/wave to get you going.

My 2cents worth.

Dave
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Old 6th November 2007, 05:24 PM   #8
LK
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http://www.severnesails.com/news/news08_023.asp

Topresults in early planning and handling for Glide, NCX and Element,
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Old 7th November 2007, 03:45 AM   #9
Floyd
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Hi
But surely any sail with 3 cams is a freerace sail !?
Its been noted before that older (deeper/fuller) 7.5 sails compare quite favourably with modern race type large sails.
You can build a sail to do any specific thing you want. Clever bit is building it to do diffent (and contadictory)jobs well.(Which to my mind cammed sails just cant)
Low end power; excellent top end and easy manouvering are difficult attributes to produce along side one another. Tuish Thunderbird IMO is only sail I have used which really does excell in all deparments; (Yes I know it loses out to cammed at very (very) top end compared to some cammed sails but I aint used Severne Freeglide !!!
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Old 7th November 2007, 05:54 AM   #10
Maximus
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I'm 80 to 85 KG and sail a Hyper 111 & have just ordered a F93. I use sails 8.4/6.7/5.8 race sails.

8.4 10-18
6.7 15-25
5.8 18 +

The F111 compared to the the F122,133 should plane just as quick, and it would be more fun. This is if you are using it in a genuine 13/14+ knots. Given the width of these newer boards they really plane up quicker and with a good technique, getting your weight off the board through mast foot pressure, you can use a size or 2 smaller, especially if you already have the light wind thing covered.

This is a point I make to a lot of people, once you get past the intermediate stage, 1 board no longer works, you need 2 to cover most conditions

Happy sailing
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