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Old 17th November 2007, 02:33 AM   #11
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Hi, interesting discussion...We sail mostly in places where you can get planning. Most events have at least 12 knots.

My concern is that people also like planning and know what is going fast. I think that maybe raceboard cannot be so appealing? or I am wrong....

what do you think, if we start racing FW or Raceboard (for people 18+years) what can we expect of a fleet in two years...what can be bigger, and more competitive?
specially considering price factor is important and being competitive international too.
We need to set a goal of a 50 people fleet for 24 months from now...so, in which class can be easier....

R.
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Old 17th November 2007, 03:22 AM   #12
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FW-that is the POWER!!! and great fun,
don't think so about the RCB
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Old 17th November 2007, 04:32 AM   #13
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in avg. 12 knots, formula is perfect format, you can even go Formula Experience route
to lower the cost, or have an open formular class, meaning allow any one board/sail
to lift some limitations of the class to attract larger group

here's the link with some ideas you might find interesting : http://www.miamiwindsurfing.com/usaformula.html
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Old 17th November 2007, 10:47 AM   #14
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Sounds interesting the Miami proposals for Racing...

I still think there should be prizes separated in Formula and slalom and one "overall" as there must be people without one type of baord that can race in one or other.

They say for an event 2 boards 4 sails...for slalom and formula together....
I will say that as for the range of wind with modern sails:

up to 20 knots formula with ONLY ONE sail ONE board is enough. I have been sailing in FE the other day with OVerdrive 11.0 in 28 knots with my 70 kilos...still possible.

over 20 knots with 2 sails is enough...

then the rule, 2 boards 3 sails.

Finally, no custom fins, just the production fins of the board or an alternative production fin. I think customs fins are more expensive than sails...

About raceboard + slalom? same format than the one above...can be something to discuss?

Carlos
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Old 17th November 2007, 08:29 PM   #15
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R,
I don't know where you live, but having 12 knots in every event (every day?) certainly sounds like a luxury. And it certainly sounds like if planing windsurfing would be the call.

On the other hand, I wonder if fleets of 50 FW racers exists anywhere, in any single region. My limited understanding says that in FW the difference in performance between the top guys and those that just race for fun easily becomes so big that "it is not fun for the fun guys anymore".

Formula experience sounds like a good idea. But it is not much fun to always see the racers equipped with the latest FW kit disappear in front of you. Every time, even if skills would be equivalent.

I think the relationship between FW and FE is like that between Raceboard and KONA OD. The detuned class should not start together with the full out race equipment, it is just discouraging for those that arn't in the arms race. A very hard problem.

The KONA OD class does have some shortcomings, but I believe it is the only class that realistically can reach larger fleet sizes, like 50 boards.
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Old 18th November 2007, 12:15 AM   #16
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R

If that is the case where you sail, I would vote for Formula, even after I criticized it. I won't comment on your goals (I think nobody could), there are still many ifs and potential problems as PG says.

Carlos wrote:
"up to 20 knots formula with ONLY ONE sail ONE board is enough. I have been sailing in FE the other day with Overdrive 11.0 in 28 knots with my 70 kilos...still possible."
This is the kind of comment that can create a lot of misunderstanding and confusion among less informed sailors (to put it very mildly).
After all the good discussion on these forums related to strong wind board choice (iS, Kombats, etc), I think most people can judge credibility of such claims.
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Old 18th November 2007, 11:30 PM   #17
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It's been said that the Kona is a problem class because you can only buy from one supplier - but for many people, that is not a problem but a plus. Some of us just don't want to get into a gear race. We don't want to spend our time working out whether a Brand X 2006 model mast works best with a Brand Z 11 or a Brand Y 11.3421......we just want to go out and become better sailors, and to know that when we win, we win because we sail better and not because we have spent more money, or because our sponsor has superior designers. I leave my fastest gear in the rack and race one design because I just cannot see the challenge in beating the fleet because of the stuff I own rather than because of how I sail. I also want to be able to sail when I want to sail, not wait for wind to get a decent day out.

However, of course, lots of people DO like tweaking their gear, and getting the ultimate in course racing planing performance. They don't want to sail something slower.

The problem is that given these very different extremes, any attempt to get 50 people to race windsurfers in an area on just one class may rule out too many possible racers, no matter what you do. There are always plenty of people who love FW and would not sail RB or Kona, and vice versa. The problem is that windsurfing seems to hate the idea of diversity amongst racers - the manufacturers want everyone to race in a small number of classes. That ignores differing tastes and conditions. Sure, numbers breed strength in some ways but not if you are leaving people out by not giving them a class that they find acceptable - maybe not ideal, but acceptable.

It may be more difficult, but a two-pronged approach could be a very good way to go. Maybe something like a Kona class and a FW class, since you have such good winds. People who like to sail in all winds and want cheap new one design off-the-shelf gear can sail the Kona, guys who want the ultimate in performance can sail FW. Actually wouldn't a Slalom class be likely to attract big numbers in 12 knot+ winds??

We have a total fleet of 50+, with 30+ racing on a good day. There are three classes - Raceboard, One Design and the kid's OD. Without the three classes, I don't think we'd get the same numbers overall as too many people would be unable to find a board to suit their tastes. However, we are sailing on a small inlet where FW and Slalom don't really work.
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Old 19th November 2007, 03:22 AM   #18
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Well, as I understand, there are many classes out there, I have checked in internet and there are many classes out there but just some of the mentioned are on IWA or ISAF.

Chances are simple, FW, FE, Raceboard, RSX as I understand. I dont think Kona because if you are going to work a serious fleet, that class is not ISAF class.

Of the others, as people said, depends on your wind conditions really. FW looks lots of fun, but still needs updating equipment and high costs. Raceboard is a bit simpler on this, but for sure, someone racing FW wont like to race in a Raceboard and RSX. From this side, best thing can be FE but its more young guns oriented. RSX, can be same as Raceboard but Raceboard gives the chance to many people to buy (same as FW) some Used equipment and race for fun.

Luke
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Old 19th November 2007, 08:35 AM   #19
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Raceboard Raceboard Raceboard!

It is the most accessible to a wide range of skill levels and allows for exciting racing even when the wind is too light for formula boards. Raceboard should be the primary class, which forms the base of your fleet. Some of the earlier posters brought up the excellent point that the raceboard class allows many different styles of boards to compete; almost anything with a daggerboard can be used. For example, I sail a Kona ONE, but I compete in the raceboard class because there is no one-design fleet for Kona in my area.

In my area, only the big, strong, experienced, aggressive, wealthy men race formula, whereas the raceboard class is a good mix of different types, including women, kids, and old people.

Having said that, if your fleet grows and you have many aggressive, expert windsurfers, then you could create a second class for formula windsurfing.
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Old 19th November 2007, 10:02 AM   #20
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Go for raceboard.

They are suitable for triangle racing in all conditions so even if you don't have too many sailboards, you can race in the general boat races.

If you haveto set a special course and organise a special race it is much less likely to happen. Ther are sailing clubs all over the world having races every weekend. Why not just join in.

Most clubs have handicap systems so it doesn't matter what gear you have, you just race against who ever is ahead of you (boat or board), and keep working to improve yourself.
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