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Old 5th February 2008, 01:17 AM   #121
Bill
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Smile New Terminology

Sail boring is a word I feel may be used by some people to describe light wind non planning windsurfing.

Do you agree?
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Old 5th February 2008, 02:11 AM   #122
Jean-Marc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Sail boring is a word I feel may be used by some people to describe light wind non planning windsurfing.

Do you agree?
Nope. Get on a Serenity with a 11.0 sail in light 6-7 knots wind and you'll discover how challenging and exciting it can become to be gliding on the upper range edge. Pure adrenaline is guaranteed to flush in your blood flow to keep control of such a beasty beauty, believe me...Get the right gear for the right conditions is key to get your daily fix. Funniest than 20 years ago, no questions.

Cheers !

JM
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Old 5th February 2008, 02:54 AM   #123
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[quote=Floyd;18382]
Quote:
Effectively "Sailboarding" (ie a small boat on which you stand and steer with the rig) was "killed off".(The word I mean)
Windsurfing (A large surf board with a sail which you steer with your feet) was deemed "The Sport".
Semantic note : Serenity turning is actually done by foot steering (opposite to funboarding foot-steering though), not much by sail steering (except tacking/jibing as per funboarding). Serenity is "Windsurfing" by your definition and has nothing in common with the original "Sailboarding" Windsurfer barge, especially in ultralight winds...

Cheers !

JM
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Old 5th February 2008, 03:05 PM   #124
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Cool

So SB have made best / funnest / fastest displacment board on their first attempt !!
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Old 5th February 2008, 04:25 PM   #125
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Dont think you need much understanding of sport to recognise distinction been made on here between Windsurfing / Sailboarding. Serenity is a Sailboard.
Besides it does NOT steer with feet.
Going in a straight line anywhere with it depends on getting CoE of Sail over centre of resitance of board. Of course "negative" footsteering affects it.Lie all boards.

Perhaps its he barge commnts that helped destroy displacement sailing in first place.
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Old 5th February 2008, 06:21 PM   #126
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Floyd is possibly right to say that longboards and light wind windsurfing would be better off with their own movement, but then again distinct disciplines like karting and rallying are both covered by UIM and in some cases the same mags etc. Skiing from XC to jumping to freestyle all come under the same banner, like sailing does from 98 foot maxis to Optis. There's probably less difference between a wavesailor and a longboarder than there is between maxi and its bowman and a cruising yacht and its cook, or a 12 Voetsjoel and its skipper - yet everyone from Ellen Macarthur to the Opti kids and cruisers are "sailors".

And it's weird to say that just because a sport has developed (grown, then shrunk, with technological and design and accent changes like most activities) then the original form of doing that sport and the original equipment has lost its original name to a newer form.

That's like saying that the Wright Flyer III was not an aeroplane and didn't fly, because there are modern aircraft like the SR72 Blackbird and 747 that look different and fly differently.

Look at the two sports that created windsurfing, boat sailing and surfing. Surfing has changed radically over hundreds of years, but no one says that The Duke or King Kamehamaha "weren't surfers" and that the ancient redwood boards "aren't surfboards". I'd love to see some people here tell longboard surfing world champ Nat Young that he's "not a surfer" and his longboard is "not a surfboard" because it's longer than a modern thruster and doesn't get used for tow surfing! I think you'll get a very sharp reply 'cause "Nat's Nat and That's That".

The sport of boat sailing - one of the inspirations for the first Windsurfer (TM) - has changed one hell of a lot over 150 or so years, but it's still called sailing and an old yacht or skiff is still called what it was called years before. No one says that the original schooner America isn't a yacht just because it's not like a modern IACC racer. No one tells the guys who sail replica 18 Foot Skiffs that they aren't sailing skiffs because their boats aren't lightweight trapeze-powered planing flyers.

No one tells a cross-country skier that he's not skiing because downhilling and freestyle have been invented more recently.

No one tells the guys who race historic F1 cars that they aren't racing cars because they are not carbon Ferraris or Red Bulls.

Sure, language changes, but you know what really shows this "longboards and lightwinds are not windsurfing" claim to be way off the air?? If it was true, then if you put Schweitzer, Drake, and Bert Salisbury (the man who invented the term "windsurfer" and applied it to a 12' long board sailed in light winds) all on Windsurfer (TM) longboards they wouldn't be "windsurfing" as the revisionists define it.

Now, it's bizarre to say that if the people who created the sport and called it "windsurfing" were sailing a board that is and was sold, trademarked, and called the Windsurfer (TM) and which gave its name to the sport, they wouldn't be "windsurfing" on a "windsurfer". It's bizarre to say that the competitions that have existed for the Windsurfer (TM) class for 30 years are "not windsurfing".

The other really bizarre thing is that the efforts to create the name "boardsailing" or "sailboarding" only came about after longboard sailing had become huge, short boards had appeared, and Windsurfing Int tried to keep its cool name from becoming a generic. Until then, the sport WAS windsurfing.

Sure, the term used for the sport has changed, but there is no logical reason whatsoever for sailing in the original style to have its original trademarked name taken from it. The sport of windsurfing is much wider than the wonderful high-wind stuff that some people keep trying to straightjacket it into - that's just one aspect.

By the way, the original Windsurfer, like Div 2 boards, Raceboards and other longboards, is and was steered by the feet when that is most efficient - and the "barge" can be carve gybed, tacked and foot steered a lot better than a Serenity in my experience! The Serenity is nice, but whether it is the "best, fastest and funnest displacement board" is a very open question.

FLOYD; re planing.

You don't create a planing hull by having dynamic lift that exceeds weight - that would create an aircraft! And there is always some buoyancy lift in a hull (confirmed by Mr Drake and the renowed Daniel Savitsky, planing hull research guru).

Yes, many hulls create dynamic lift but non-planing ones also create suction aft and that, with the growth of the midships trough, causes the C of G of the hull to actually sink lower - "squatting". A planing hull is one that passes through this inevitable stage and then has its C of G rise above the static (ie bouyancy lift only) position because of dynamic lift.

Have you read Marchaj, Larsson and Eliasson, Gutelle etc? They are all quite good on this.
Interestingly Marchaj uses tank test data of an International Canoe at the National Physics Laboratory (IIRC) for his planing hull drag graphs. The Canoe is a lot like a heavier, flatter Serenity and Marchaj and the NPL guys and every sailor who knows them reckons the Canoe planes;

see http://www.intcanoe.org.uk/gallery/d...?album=2&pos=6

and

http://www.intcanoe.org.uk/gallery/d...album=2&pos=13

they are certainly planing and the Serenity feels "planier".

I have done a lot of sailing against the world's best A Class cats, which have "planier" type hulls than the Spit and Stealth - the Serenity, like a D2 or a Windsurfer or the Olympic Windglider, is much much more of a planing hull.

PPS - Unregistered is right, comments like "barge" are the sort of thing that hurt the sport.
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Old 5th February 2008, 06:32 PM   #127
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PS Floyd, bummer about breaking the neck. I didn't do something that bad but I put myself into hospital for an operation after wavesailing and in a separate incident came scarily close to karking it - but no one I know has died doing it (unlike my other sport) and I'm not sure that being a lover of high wind sailing, like Bill is, means that he can brag about "living on the edge".
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Old 5th February 2008, 06:37 PM   #128
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Light wind windsurfing has the biggest growth potential as mentioned earlier, it's up to countries like Starboard to make that happen just imagine the possibilities in China alone, look at it's growth and emerging middleclass
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Old 5th February 2008, 09:05 PM   #129
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If you have seen some of the light wind freestyle that is being done, "boring" is a loooooooong way from describing light wind windsurfing (freestyle).

There is something for everyone out there - I think it's all exciting in its own way.
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Old 5th February 2008, 11:28 PM   #130
Bill
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Thumbs up Long may it continue

Hi Ricardo,

It’s been fun on this thread, I have enjoyed the banter.

I agree with you that windsurfing is growing. I think you make an important point about new ideas in windsurfing attracting people back into the sport and attracting new faces.

I started windsurfing on long boards with an emphasis on displacement rather than planning. There were no foot straps, harnesses, or fully batten sails.

At the time a book by Ken Winner called the “Wind is Free” was an inspiration to me.

To-day I have all the modern, light, strong, efficient gear.

To me Starboard are a breath of fresh air and have brought and continue to bring many people into the sport.

There has never been a more exciting time in windsurfing.

It’s clear to see the passion and enjoyment that people are discovering and some have never lost for light wind sailing.

Speed sailing has made a comeback helped no doubt by GPS and the fascination in breaking the 50 knot barrier.

Slalom racing and wave sailing are growing again in popularity.

Freestyle remains popular and I watch with interest the development of light wind freestyle.

I have watched a few video’s of light wind freestyle on You Tube and they are amazing.

There’s racing and the Olympics.

Of course burn and turn will always be popular.

Long may it continue in its various forms.
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