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Old 29th January 2008, 07:35 AM   #61
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Windsurfing is like excellent wine just gets better with age!!!!!
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Old 29th January 2008, 07:45 AM   #62
Bill
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The fastest sailed powered water craft is a wind surfer. QED
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Old 29th January 2008, 07:59 AM   #63
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Hi Pierre,

this is Ricardo Guglielmino again answering to your source request.

I understand for some people is difficult to see what numbers say, but would be good if you go to:
http://www.sgma.com/

SGMA (Sporting goods manufacturers association) gives the World industry accurate information to take decitions or prepare their strategies. Well, for sure, you have to pay to subscribe to this companies and they study yearly not only windsurfing, but most sports available in dirt, water and snow. Their accurate marketing studies are the ones that give important information about what people want or tends to do. You can check some "free" 2-3 years old reports and still, not being 2-3 years before the growth of windsurfing important, you can find windsurfing growing fine. Once you suscribe, you can see what has happened 1-2 years ago and prepare for the future.

This information is accurate and follows stricly statistics, and for sure, is serious. There is TONS of information and marketing studies in Internet, its just about taking hours searching them and taking more time reading them. After that with lots of information its just about preparing your strategies, in case you have a goal or not. If you dont have it...no strategy is needed.

About all this discussion, I would like to add that good examples as Bonaire are the ones that once you see them, you find interesting ways to promote our/your sport in your local spot. If they can, why others not? just its about that there is people like me interested in doing it and there are others that just want to have fun and dont worry about if more people is getting into the sport in their local spot.
At the end, for some people including me, is fun being sailing with your friends and more people, its satisfactory to see some people learning and others having fun just looking from the beach.

I can go to a sailing spot with 40 knots daily here in the south of Peru...and will find few people sailing there, why? if this are the POZO world class conditions?...why there is more people sailing in the 6-15 knots spots? why?
Its just about how you want to present your sport and feel happy with it. After that...go sailing to the 40 knots spot...is fun too! and complete yourself of adrenaline.

Best luck!
Ricardo Guglielmino
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Old 29th January 2008, 08:26 AM   #64
C249
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Yes, Bill, the fastest sailing craft in terms of top timed speed over 500m is a windsurfer - but that's NOT evidence that windsurfer-type sails are better for all craft, in all conditions.

Many windsurfers are complete dogs in many conditions. Give respect where it's due, like world-record holding aerodynamacist Prof Mark Drela from MIT does when he tells glider guys how efficient sailboat rigs are for their purpose.

Just because something gets the world record does not mean it's "better" than other gear that isn't designed for world records.

The world's fastest car is the supersonic Thrust SST, but that doesn't mean that other competition cars are inferior. Thrust is useless for other purposes. A rally car, F1 car, hillclimb racer, classic or Winston Cup racer are just as good as Thrust for their forms of competition.

The world's fastest ski gear (water or snow) is no good for slalom, or bumps, or freestyle. Does that mean that the world's best mogul skis are worse, QED? Of course not - they are different.

The world record holding bicycle is no good for the Tour or a triathlon. For road or track or MTB or time trials, other bikes are faster and better.

The world's fastest sprinter is not as good as the world's best marathon runner for long distances - does that mean the sprinter is a "better runner QED".

Eric and his windsurfer would get eaten alive by an original Windsurfer, slalom or FW gear or a LAser or even an Optimist in the typical winds at most places in the world. Eric's gear is fantastic for its purpose but other gear is as good or much better for other purposes.
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:00 AM   #65
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This is great, a "windsurfing growth" post have already 64 posts...that means that its interesting.

And just to add, I also feel windsurfing growing...and looks like soon it will grow more with light wind boards.

Speed record is fine for some...just a very few 0.1% in the world...but sounds interesting for other some.

But having fun windsurfing in 3-10knots sounds interesting, very interesting, so interesting that I may want to sail in those conditions and have fun.

KC
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:28 AM   #66
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Hi C249,

Thanks for your thoughts. You've clearly got a signature style and outlook about sailing, and frankly, I don't doubt your overall dedication and enthusiam for all aspects of the various wind driven sports.

I've been exclusively sailing Bill Hansen's sails (Windwing and now Hansen Sails) since 1986, and I think that he is probably one of the most creative sail designers around. Yet sometimes on the big scheme of things, I don't think that he receives the real credit I think he deserves. However, with your seemingly strong interest in small boat sails, I thought you might appreciate some of the photos at Bill's initial website after left Windwing. I know virtually nothing about small boat sails, but you should check them out. From what I've seen, nobody in Santa Barbara has anything like them.

http://www.hansenaerosports.com/
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Old 29th January 2008, 10:53 AM   #67
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Light winds is the growth potential of the sport, high winds have so many other adrenalin sports which attract and compete against windsurfing, high wind windsurfing will always have followers and some growth, but lightwinds is the future for massive growth.
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Old 29th January 2008, 05:15 PM   #68
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There was a detuned Div2. Not sure who it was built by but marketed through Laser network.Board was actually called a Laser !!! Had Div 2 bows going to flat around middle. Nobody knew what to classify it as. Wasn`t Div1; wasnt Div2 and certainly wan`t Fun Board. Performed Ok but to be honest no better tan best Div1`s of time.



I `ve bought a small trials bike for light wind use. Getting a bit fed up peddling MTB ??? Its great. Still look forward to F4 + days though.

Also think you are missing point about our speed record. Anyone of us could go and buy identical kit.Sure we might not keep up with Antoine but its no great feat to do 40 knots anymore on a WS. (Even I`ve done it) WS is one of few remaining sports where man in street on a low budget can think about getting upto perhaps 90% of world record.(and more ??? look on GPS speedsurfing) Try and buy a car to do 90% of Thrusts speed; and for a few thousand pounds !!! WS is fastest sailing craft; it was even when Yellow pages held record. Its toughest and most adaptable. Tell me another craft that could survive in waves where we play. (apart from kites) Same board could then stick a fair speed on speed course.(Lots of waveboards have achieved around 40k)
Its without doubt most fit for purpose sailing craft ever built.
Yes we aven`t invented loads but we`ve brought many together in a package.
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Old 29th January 2008, 07:33 PM   #69
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Whilst high wind windsurfing will always have a place and a market, it will only ever be niche, big growth and participation will only ever occur at the light wind end
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Old 29th January 2008, 07:55 PM   #70
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Steve, Bill seems to do some very nice work; he's a guy lots of us respect for his stuff from FW to Wyliecats. But while his (board inspired?) sails may be unusual around Santa Barbara, the boat sails seem to be fundamentally very similar to those that have been evolved by boat sailors, with little to no reference to boards, in the high-performance development classes in the UK, Australia, NZ and some parts of the US and Europe.

As far as I can see Bill's Hoot sail, for example, is a lot like the post 1993 Moth sails, which were a revival of a 1960s concept in the same class. They had elliptical outline, full battens, high aspect, and pocket luffs, just like the Hoot. Materials are different, concepts appear similar.

But while these sails are certainly generally quicker than old-style boat sails, there are quite a few people - including guys like world-renowned skiff designer Julian Bethwaite - who reckon that old-style sails are surprisingly good in many ways on some boats. Some classes in the dynamic Brit dinghy scene have backtracked from "advances" in rig design because the speed edge wasn't worth the rigging/trolleying/fragility hassle.

Floyd, there was the Laser Surfsprint, Typhoon Turbo and Bic Ken Winner in the "detuned D2" category, but they didn't get support in the sense of a separate class in many parts of the world; Division 1 was pretty much a UK class. Pity.

Sure, what boards can do is remarkable. What many speed boards or waveboards cannot do is also remarkable....they can't even float all the time!

The most adaptable? Try teaching someone on a waveboard; or doing an ocean race; or sailing a twilight race followed by a picnic aboard; or living aboard for two years; or getting through flat calms and then having a nice class race. Lots of yachts can do all those.

What other boats can do is just as remarkable. A 75' tri that can circle the globe in 70-something days under the control of one 5' nothing woman is utterly fit for purpose. A Laser is very fit for purpose (a class that attracts 300 sailors under 17 AND 320 entries in just 96 hours for an over 35's regatta is clearly enormously succesful). A 12 Foot Skiff on its home waters is fantastic; seeing the way 90 years of development, a bunch of carbon and no rules creates something so moulded to the environment. An A Class cat knifing along and eating FW boards for breakfast in many winds is elegance and efficiency in solid form.

I often find that sailing stuff from waveboards to Laser, maxis and Tornado cats is a problem in one way - when you know how well other types of sailng craft work, you just can't get that warm feeling that only YOUR sort of sailing is the best.
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