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Old 29th January 2008, 07:09 PM   #11
Marko
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Ola, I have the feeling that starboards R&D department forgot one VERY important characteristic of a board - "windsurfing sensation" or FUN!

I believe that futura is faster, more controlable and have a wider range then stype, but what about fun factor?

If I compare Sonic100 and is101 (both boards that I owned and sailed a LOT), is101 is faster in a wider range of conditions, it is way easier in chop and gybes better in difficult conditions...But I enjoyed S100 so much more in "ideal slalom" conditions and gybing this board in nice flat path was such a pleasure. For me, s100 in 20-25 knots with 6.6 slalom sail and nice waves was such a great windsurfing experience. You could really fell the thrill and excitement. With is101, it is so unexciting. Control is so good that you don't feel like you are windsurfing at all.

In fact, I enjoy is101 only while racing. This is the main reason why I wanted to get st93, to bring back that Sonic100 feeling.
When I wanted to order st93, I found that it is sold out and that the new board replaces it.
When I saw the specs of futura93, I could feel that this is not the board for me.
Yes, it is fast (probably), it is easy but does it have fun factor of stype??? I guess not (based on what I learned from S100/is101 comparison).

I agree that new smaller isonics are very easy and fun to ride, but I would like to have a board like isonics that I could use with small no-cam sails and that I could jump without worries. Stype was perfect for this.

Please, bring back st93! I want a board with less range and harder to control then futura but with more windsurfing thrill.

P.S. Anyone have st93 for sale in EU?
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:41 PM   #12
Ola_H
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I see your point. Its like with skiing. With the new super wide skis (some two times as wide as classic skis) even super light bottomless powder skiing becomes very easy. You can say unexciting. But in the other hand you can go much faster and hence get back the excitement (but it does make the run last a shorter time - or makes the mountain smaller if you like). So maybe the solution in windsurfing is also to push harder and get the excitement from the actual speed rather than from controlling the board. Personally I think fx the iS76 is a very exciting ride, but maybe that's because I'm a wave rider and scared to go that fast...

But seriously, the same argument exists in the wave boards world. EVOs are sometimes accused of not offering this kind of "high" and exciting ride, but once on a wave you can get a more exciting experience in my opinion since you can easier go where you want on the wave (hit the lip etc). Probably the kind of "soft" or "damped" ride on the EVO is the key to this board both being an excellent wave sailing beginners board as well as the board of choice for former WC champion Scott McKercher.
But still many people prefer that classical feel (ala Acid). It's in the end probably a matter of taste and f you have your mind set at one particular style it hard change.

Last edited by Ola_H; 29th January 2008 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:04 PM   #13
Remi
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Hi Marko,

Did you try the Futura 93?

With the complete new shape of the iSonic compare to the Sonic, you must compare in this case the Sonic 100 with iSonic 87. For me the iSonic 101 is much more beter and have a better wind range particulary in low wind.

All the best
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Old 30th January 2008, 12:17 AM   #14
Floyd
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Muzza
Fair point I should have included Futura is nothing like "07" GO.(I`d not seen new Go`s)
Eagle and Hawk are different boards but share identical rocker profiles and very very similar planshapes.
Perhaps you should start a company !!!

You could reintro allsorts of kit. Alpha (for a while) built old Fanatic designs.Worked for them. Most folk bought the new new kit though !!
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Old 30th January 2008, 09:19 AM   #15
GEM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzza View Post
Gem,
Silence isn't a reasonable response from a company to criticism from a person who buys and sells their products, whether they agree or not.
Perhaps, but if you are important *B as a retailer, then this is not the best place to get their attention - it's too public and thus not sufficiently diplomatic. That's one businessman's opinion (I don't sell sailboards).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzza View Post
I've ridden many different brands including Starboard, RRD, Fanatic, F2, AHD and various customs and never broken any.
Myself, I've only dinged noses, mostly from just falling off of sinkers when schlogging, not from getting launched (which is a rare occasion). But I know people who have. I tend to break rig components, instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzza View Post
I can understand you wouldn't want to 'trade off' over 1 or 2 hundred grams but when you're talking a kilo (20% +) that's stretching it.
When I compare numbers I end up with more like 0.5 kg (comparing wood to wood, etc.). Technora to wood / carbon-kevlar, more like 1 kg, but my point is that this is not a fair comparison on durability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzza View Post
Your passionate support of Starboard is clouding your judgment perhaps?
Boards I currently own: Berky 295, Naish 8'7", Fanatic Skate 112, and *B Aero 117, Kombat 96, Rio M (for teaching) and a F133 on order. Prior to release of the Futura, I was planning to get an ST136. Alternate choices for the F133 were iS122 or JP SS 137, and until it comes it ain't over yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzza View Post
The Start, Rio, Kombat, iSonic are all perfect examples of exceptional boards with no rival.
On this we agree! BTW, I chose the Futura 133 > iS122 because I will use this for some old school freestyle (planing and non-planing), and don't think the iS would do as well.

GEM
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Old 30th January 2008, 02:03 PM   #16
Marko
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Ola,

with skiing, you can always go faster and push harder, but in windsurfing, you are limited to wind strenght. I am pretty experienced slalom racer and I used and raced is101 in 40knots with 5.5 sail - that was fun. But those days are so rare... With Sonic 100, which was harder to control and more agressive, I could feel adrenalin pumping in 20 knots of wind. With is101, I need 10 knots more to be "on the edge".
But this is not a problem. Isonic is made for racing, and in racing you need control so that you can focus on other things. So for racing, I prefer isonic.
But when freeriding, I do not care how fast I really am. I just want a FEELING that I am fast.
I hope this is not to confusing.

Remi,

I did not try futura93 (but I would like to). You say that I should compare Sonic100 to is87... Why??? is87 is narrower then s100...Futura93 is much wider then st93.
I do not see the point.

My conclusion is that newer wide/thin boards are faster in a wider range of conditions, are easier to control but do not offer more pleasure of windsurfing to experienced rider.
I can see that this futura concept is better for 90% of freeriders, but for someone who is comfortable with old narrow slalom boards, and who want to have fun in the strong wind and jump and loop, I think that stype is better choice.

But, I may be wrong because I did not try futura...
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Old 30th January 2008, 08:44 PM   #17
Remi
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Hi Marko,

I said that you must compare this 2 boards because they have the same wind range and have the the same width in tail.

Between the 2 boards S-Type 93 and Futura 93, their is only 0,8 cm in the tail, so when you plane you have only this part on the water and the rest is for plaining ability and control. So you may try the board before and you will see how much the board are fun. You can use it as a S-Type with for exemple jump.

All the best
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Old 31st January 2008, 01:22 AM   #18
steveC
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Muzza,

I think you missed the point about what I was trying to communicate earlier. Frankly, I tend to agree with GEM's thought that there are often better ways to communicate your criticisms to Starboard. Don't get me wrong, criticism is a valuable tool to voice your concerns, but it is important to craft it in a way that's meaningful and useful in nature.

It's important to note that the Futura line consists of 7 different models, but your comments don't even note which models that didn't measure up. You suggest that testers weren't attracted to the Futura, but you really haven't offered anything concrete to make your point. The question has to be asked whether your testers would have preferred the Stypes or Carves instead. Did you have some of these older models available for a contrast at the demos? How were the Futuras set up for the demo, and did testers have the opportunity to change the straps positions, modify mast track positioning or possibly try some different fins?

In my opinion, the comments about the GO and Futura being the same was a cheap shot. I think most folks here realize that the GO line was completely revised for 2008 probably representing significant design improvement, but I get the feeling you were trying to mislead by not making that clear. In effect, suggesting that the Futura was just an old GO design.

The fact that the Australian market is undoubtedly one of the first ones to see the 2008 models, it could be a crucial point of feedback, and I'm sure Starboard is interested in valid and sound criticisms. I would suggest that you put bit more time into your response, as I'm sure that would be better accepted and appreciated.
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Old 31st January 2008, 05:31 PM   #19
Muzza
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Steve,
I wouldn't have thought that asking a question like 'why the S-Type and Carve get scraped' was such a bad thing.
My comparisons of the Futura to the Go are correct and I can't see how you get that I suggested that the Futura is an old Go design???
I also can't see why I would have a "cheap shot" or "try to mislead" anyone, when I ride Starboard myself and I sell them.
Obviously the interpretation of my comments has gotten lost somewhere!
I haven't got a problem with Futura as a progressive freeride option that sits one step up from the Go, but if it's the same design then why not call them 'Go Tufskin', 'Go Technora' and 'Go Wood' and keep the S-Type and/or Carve.
As far as where and how I communicate my criticism goes, this forum is titled 'Ask the Team', sounds like the perfect place to ask the questions to me.
I don't waste my time beating around the bush and if that pisses people off so be it.
My original question has been answered to a certain extent. If I read between the lines, Starboard is decreasing the number of boards in the lineup so something has to go.
Hopefully they will introduce another model soon that fills the void that has been created.
Considering the number of views of this post there's obviously alot of others wanting to know the same thing.
Good sailing to everyone.
Muzza
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Old 1st February 2008, 12:08 AM   #20
Floyd
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Red face Board changes

But surely Muzza the whole issue is a little futile when you consider the final carve was actually miles away fom its original carnation.
SB could have kept name and just altered the board !!!The "Futura" would have been the 08 Carve.
Only thing that has been dropped is the name ?? (And probably the S Type which to be fair never quite captured mass buying public`s imagintion like expected.)(Yes I know it went well in right hands in right conditions but it wasn`t an early planer for its volume.)

I suspect its been quite clever marketing to rationalise board line up and quietly drop the S type.
You couldn`t really improve Carve without stealing more sales from S type; which would have made it even less feasible to produce.

How could SB advertise a new faster Carve ??? And leave S type in line up ???

Its actually been very clever.

Good sailing.
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