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Old 25th January 2008, 09:18 AM   #1
Muzza
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Default Bring back the S-type and Carve

Why did the S-type and Carve get scrapped last season.
The S-type was the board modeled on the Super-X format which now doesn't exist in PWA events, but the Super-X style of sailing is probably the most accessible style of sailing worldwide. Fast fee-riding with the ability to launch off of small waves or chop, throw a loop or plane away from a carve gybe.
And the Carve was an easy sailing free-rider which was a dream to carve gybe.
We lose these 2 fantastic boards and they get replaced with a board that is a Starboard Go without the EVA deck and tufskin finish. Ie - a lightweight version of the Go, rebadged a Futura?
Not sure I can see this as innovative, just cost cutting. This is in addition to my earlier post re Starboard boards not getting any lighter while the other leading brands are (which has hit a wall of silence).
Criticism is feedback that should be welcomed... its how companies learn, improve and grow.
From someone who sells only Starboard boards, this gets frustrating and effects our competitive edge over other brands and dealers.
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Old 26th January 2008, 10:54 AM   #2
GEM
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Well, not to defend Starboard, they can do that themselves...but I disagree with you.

Had a Carve. Nice board, but I sold it. Didn't get to ride an S-type, but have a Futura on order. All reports (both in print and from riders I know) are glowing. So I don't think it's a shaved-down Go, but rather the Go is a beefed-up Futura. Probably a matter of perspective.

Have a couple superlight boards. I liked how light they were, great for jumping, speed...also have spent many days/hours repairing them. I'm not interested in that tradeoff. Have known a fair number of other sailors who got a JP and broke-'em. You got a wall of silence because not many people agree with you.

So I can see your point of view, I just think you're totally wrong. Of course, after you've broken your XXX, are you gonna get back on here and admit that you can appreciate the durability of a Starboard?
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Old 26th January 2008, 09:29 PM   #3
Ola_H
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Muzza: Have you sailed the Futura? Its a fast and exciting board, most tend to say its faster than the S-type. I wouldn't say it a "rebadged Go", rather its an amazing fact that such a high performance board can still do double duty as a entry level board.

I think most feedback the mast few years (from dealers), was that Starboard had to many different boards. The Futura can be seen as an answer to that critique and since it's already also a proven performer I think it was a good move to let S-type and Carve go.

Last edited by Ola_H; 26th January 2008 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 26th January 2008, 11:10 PM   #4
Floyd
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Cool

Perhaps we could get Bic to reintroduce the Astro Rock and F2 the (original) Sunset Slalom.

Time moves on ; things develop and change.The Carve will be missed. It was a classic;but I`m pretty sure Futura will be better. Personally dont think S Type`s omission will cause any grief.Futura has to be better.
Carve always performed better than it had a right to but never thought S type quite lived up to expectations; which were probably just too high. (Remember all the hullabula about S type launch and it had to be better than an already exceptional board(Carve); it was always a hard call for S type) ( I was faster on my carve but perhaps I`m just rubbish but I wasn`t the only one)

Looking forward to trying Futura.

Futura is nothing like Go but even if they had similar profiles/rockers (which they dont)so what.??? A working formula ??? (Look at Fanatic range of boards;take names off you cant tell them apart (Hawk/Eagle)
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Old 29th January 2008, 02:07 PM   #5
Muzza
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Floyd,
You need to do some research on the subject before you get on a forum and make a fool of yourself through lack of knowledge.
The Futura and the Go's are identical boards as far as shape goes -length, width, rocker... everything except weight which is due to the variations in materials.
As for Fanatic Hawk and Eagle they are two different boards.
Ola_H
I've run demo days with the Futura to try and promote them along with other boards in the range and the feedback on them hasn't been anywhere near as good as it should be.
Gem,
Thanks for your feedback.
Silence isn't a reasonable response from a company to criticism from a person who buys and sells their products, whether they agree or not.
I've ridden many different brands including Starboard, RRD, Fanatic, F2, AHD and various customs and never broken any.
I can understand you wouldn't want to 'trade off' over 1 or 2 hundred grams but when you're talking a kilo (20% +) that's stretching it.
Your passionate support of Starboard is clouding your judgment perhaps?
Don't get me wrong, I think Starboard has some of the best boards on the market for their intended use... just not the Futura as a replacement for the Carve and S-Type.
The Start, Rio, Kombat, iSonic are all perfect examples of exceptional boards with no rival.
I'd hate to see a trend away from being the leading board brand due to 'trade offs'.
Muzza
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Old 29th January 2008, 02:45 PM   #6
Marko
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Hey Muzza, how do you like futura93 against stype93?
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Old 29th January 2008, 03:42 PM   #7
steveC
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Ouch!

Are Muzza's testers truly credible here? Is Starboard's "Impossible Engineering" marketing and development in question down under? Maybe more specific criticisms are warranted to support such "bad press" from a retailer.
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Old 29th January 2008, 03:53 PM   #8
Muzza
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Haven't had the chance to try the smallest of the Futura's, but if I had the chance to buy either board I'd grab the s-type without hesitation over the Futura.
I guess it depends on whether you'd like a board that is much wider (2cm) and stays wide through the tail or you want a board that is going to be faster and much more controllable when sailing fully powered.
Muzza
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Old 29th January 2008, 04:15 PM   #9
Muzza
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Hey Steve,
Is there any more credible tester than the consumer coming to a demo day to try before than potentially buy?
As I said in my post, there are many boards in the range which are market leaders, just not the Futura in my opinion.
Finally Stevo, I'm not a retailer, I'm a windsurfer who works for a retailer. Does that mean I'm gagged from having an opinion on the development of the sport I have been involved in for 27 years. I want to sell the best boards available and its much easier if they come from the manufacturer that my boss deals with, than bringing another brand into the shop to remain competetive.
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Old 29th January 2008, 05:58 PM   #10
Ola_H
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Muzza, I see your points and of course your entitled to you opinions. It is just that they don't seem to coincide with what I perceive as the general view on Futura so far.

Regarding:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzza View Post
I guess it depends on whether you'd like a board that is much wider (2cm) and stays wide through the tail or you want a board that is going to be faster and much more controllable when sailing fully powered.
Muzza
I would say that is no longer a general truth, ie that narrower is necessarily better for high wind control. You just have to look at a few successful modern slalom boards to see that. In fact, if you lessen width and want to keep volume, you need to go thicker and that has AT LEAST as big an effect on control as width. But all these details depend on the shape as a whole, no single detail mean much by itself. Its just that magazines have us to believe width is such a super important factor.

In my opinion, the Futura fits a very natural role in the program. Giving more easily accessible performance. The full on slalom boards have in my opinion become so easy to use nowadays, including smooth jibing and stuff. So, for anyone wanting something faster than the Futura, I think the most natural choice is an iS. I mean, even if you could design a board that fits in between, it will still be slower and less exciting than the iS, so such a board gets a very narrow appeal. I do some "fast freeridish" sailing on my iS76 and it fill that role rather well.
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