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Old 9th February 2008, 03:28 AM   #21
Phill104
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I would love to scan the article but I would probably incur the wrath of Mr Dawes (The Editor)

Most of the points are discussed in the thread on the boards forum.

http://www.boards.co.uk/forum/forum_...+article&TPN=1

Maybe if you are going to discuss this you should start a new thread rather than continuing with one started by someon who obviously has the hump.
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Last edited by Phill104; 9th February 2008 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 9th February 2008, 03:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill104 View Post

...I would love to scan the article but I would probably incur the wrath of Mr Dawes (The Editor)...

Yes, I realize your position...


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Old 10th February 2008, 10:04 PM   #23
SeanAUS120
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Interesting post.

It's a pity someone could have written this 3 years ago and it would've read exactly the same problems.

For interest, there's some more discussions here about mast construction and its effects on end consumer price:

http://www.carbonsugar.com/design/wh...keep-breaking/

See post 7 and 8 for some insights from people in the industry.
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Old 11th February 2008, 12:59 AM   #24
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Thanks Sean for above post and the link to your website. Don McCormick's take on carbon composites is always a great plus. I still am using one of his booms from the Corpus Christi days. In fact, I still have all the remains from about 4 more of his booms, and I have often toyed with the idea of repairing them. I always realy liked the design of the carbon rear end. So simple and direct, without all added plastic and metal components that are often used today.
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Old 11th February 2008, 05:19 PM   #25
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Peter Man has some interesting data on masts from different manufacturers and good info on IMCS.
http://www.peterman.dk/start-windsurfing-gb01.htm

Last edited by jafa; 11th February 2008 at 05:22 PM. Reason: wrong url
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Old 11th February 2008, 06:56 PM   #26
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I remember when this issue arose a few years ago - NP formula masts breaking at an astonishing rate. I can't find the link to their ridiculous explanation, or to the following thread on this forum (if somebody finds it please post here).
It was ARROGANT and INSULTING.
They don't deserve the position they're on right now.
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Old 12th February 2008, 01:51 AM   #27
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First of all I have to say that I am speaking solely in reference to our North, Central and South American distribution / dealer network. Servicing the better part of the western hemisphere excluding the Hawaiian Islands.

Take into consideration I've been at the US based distribution for NeilPryde (Adventure Sports) for 
well into 7 years now. I've worked with just about every windsurfing related product line in the Pryde Group family at a Brand Management level (at one point or another) and have seen the best and worst of it in this regard. I will say, regarding formula gear specifically, the sails have a remarkably low warranty rate. The X9 Race masts we know had some issues the past couple of seasons hence the change in development and production, as well as the change in manufacturer policy regarding warranty.

Iíd imagine the change is largely based on the fact that in as many valid claims that have been handled by NP (on X9 Race masts specifically) several claims were found to be bogus and caused by mistreatment of the gear in question. Itís understood this is not always the case. More than often claims are denied simply because the consumer, or dealer (in some cases), cannot or do not provide a sufficient amount of required information to the manufacturer.

In these cases, one thing I am sure of is that Adventure Sports has gone to every possible length to ensure that all X9 warranty claims have been handled for our dealers and their customers. This includes many claims that our production team may have opted to deny initially. You can imagine this takes a tremendous amount of correspondence and regrettably, time in order to process any grievance from a distribution level with the manufacturer. Again, many times the initial denial of the claim is based solely on a lack of information provided. Including proof of purchase receipts, at times duplicate serial numbers are claimed, lost items claimed, etc.

Firstly, the earlier speculation on wholesale pricing is bogus.

Secondly, regarding service issues; I can't speak of the service provided by another NP distributor somewhere else in the world. I will say undoubtedly (with 
all history aside between Adventure Sports and our current and past 
dealer network) that Adventure Sports has not only listened very closely to the points made by our retailers and end consumers alike, but long ago recognized any shortfalls of our own and have taken great strides over the years to improve our level of service. With warranty claims in particular, we put an incredible amount of time into reviewing each claim thoroughly and follow through personally with production to ensure our customers are taken care of. I'm certain our current dealers would attest to this. More to this point, I'm speaking of the 'Here and Now'. Yesterday's a world away.

The fact is ourselves as a distributor turnover what I'll say is a very large number of sails, rigs, accessories, etc. I hear NeilPryde Windsurfing bashed continually. Frankly, this false perception is based on past service related and product issues dating back several years along with current miss-information.

Consider that NeilPryde has a very expansive line of products. All of which carry an extremely low warranty rate as a whole. We hear the most of issues regarding very specialized products for a core group of racers and/or including narrow product categories. Unfortunately for us this is usually the most vocal group of sailors and the speculative trickle down effect to other racers and/or recreational sailors is usually not leaning in our favor.

The facts are as I see it, and yes, I certainly have a bias in this case. NeilPryde has put a remarkable amount of time into the development and effort into servicing each and every claim to the best of their ability. They rely highly on the efforts and knowledge of their distribution network to make this happen. The complexities of production are sometimes unforeseeable but NeilPryde products as a whole are of sound quality. The performance in many if not most cases are unmatched.

As fantastical a name that NeilPryde Windsurfing is in the industry, the reality is that the brand unit itself; from the research and development team, production and marketing team alike, consist of a relatively small number of purist, windsurf enthusiasts, whoís end goal is really to produce the best windsurfing equipment available. I know these folks well and also know their involvement with NeilPryde starts with their love for the sport.

In that vain, we at Adventure Sports take great strides in providing an extremely high level of service including a dedicated team to warranties and on hand assessment by management. All management of which have been involved in the sport of windsurfing for at least 20 years. I'm personally dedicated to changing the perception. I know better you see. I'm well aware of where we excel 
and hyper aware of where we fall short. One thing for sure is our love and loyalty to the sport and its participants is true, as well as our support for NeilPryde Windsurfing.

Garrett Scotti
Division Manager
NeilPryde Windsurfing / JP-Australia
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Old 12th February 2008, 03:08 AM   #28
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First of all I want to thank Mr. Garrett Scotti for his reply, it's always usefull to have a real "debate" and to have the point of view of as many parts as possible.
Nevertheless i wish to point your attention to some sentences taken from the first post and from the NP internet page:

(omissis)
With 18 hours of use on the water, the mast was clearly delivered to the customer in the correct structural condition.

If a mast breaks subsequent to this, it is likely that the failure has been caused by misadventure or mishandling and not from there being a problem with the mast construction. This is the basis on which we judge X9 mast failures and is similar to that used in other industry's that sell carbon / glass structures.
(omissis)

Ok that's the first part, here goes the second one:

NeilPryde warrants that this product, when it is purchased from an authorized NeilPryde dealer by a retail customer, will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of six (6) months from the date of purchase by the original retail customer. This warranty is solely for the benefit of the original retail purchaser and may not be assigned.


Well, now do you really think there're no "black points" in this two statements, all clear no problems?
So you're telling your customer who has spent a consistent amount of $Ä to purchase what is advertised to be the best mast of the brand that not only he have to accept the six month warranty (when for instance ALL PRODUCTS sold in European Union MUST have two YEARS warranty) but that warranty is practically reduced to a range of 18 hours of use?!?
Isn't that a little bit contra legem, against law and reliance of the customer himself?

I've no doubt you work with the best purposes, passion, professionality etc but for these reasons I'm still surprised that (now and tomorrow, not yesterday) the things stay like that..
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Old 12th February 2008, 04:09 AM   #29
GS_NPUSA
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I'm basically repeating what I've listed on a local forum earlier but just would like to note the following:

I cannot rightly respond on behalf of NeilPryde as a 
manufacturer and in no way intend to do so. My point was to make clear 
the responsibilities of ourselves as a distributor, hence my statement regarding service at the distributor level.

As I noted earlier, NeilPryde relies highly on the efforts and knowledge of their distribution network to validate any and all claims. I'm certain in fact, that this claim was not considered blindly by David Mead.

I do want to make it clear that as much as it is the
retail dealerís obligation as a representative carrier or 'Authorized Dealer' of NeilPryde products to support and service the brands they carry, it is the distributors duty in turn, to support and service their dealers that have signed up for just that responsibility. This means going to bat for them and their customer, even when it means going against the brandís initial assessment of the claim in question. I cannot assuredly say this course of action was taken in this instance.

More over, Iím not necessarily a fan of the policy but it is what it is. That being said if the distributor is unable to secure a suitable response from the manufacturer on any claim, I feel it's now our obligation as a distributor (if we believe the claim to be valid) to right the situation by providing a 
replacement or credit where applicable to the dealer, so he/she can 
appropriately service their customer. In other words, we take it on the chin and settle with NP in our time.

This is most assuredly the course of action Adventure Sports has taken over the past 2 seasons. We win some we lose some. More won than lost I might add. However, itís my belief; internal issues between distribution and production, should stay internal issues. The consumer is the first concern and keeping them on the water with as little red tape as possible is our first objective.

Kind Regards,

Garrett Scotti
Adventure Sports
Division Manager
NeilPryde Windsurfing / JP-Australia
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Old 12th February 2008, 08:17 AM   #30
Screamer
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Mr. Scotti
Thanks for your answers. It would be great if NP themselves had similar attitude/policies as you towards their customers.
6 months/18 hours warranty contradiction still stands. Refusal to answer, deleting "inappropriate" posts on their forum, etc, etc.
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