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Old 12th February 2008, 08:50 PM   #11
mike
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Jjay - Have you noticed any allignment problems with you North Ice downhaul pulley. I have a 2007 5.3 North Ice. Great sail but the downhaul pulley "saws" the line making me replace it every few sessions or else "pop" out on the water. The dealer recently, under warrentee had the pulley re-alligned. It is better but still not as good as my 2006 North Ice 4.5 or my larger Retros which are perfect.
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Old 13th February 2008, 11:42 AM   #12
matt12
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Yep ... same problem for me big time with the 08 sails The Ice are not too bad because the downhaul tensions are low and you can just force the rope sawing over the edge of the pulley .... but the North RAM F8 ... the sails are almost useless because it is much worse. I really can't get enough downhaul hence the reason for my other post seeking good downhaul tools .. although with the chinook winch, I can see myself breaking the rope, base or downhaul tool with amount of force that will be required. All my previous race sails, I could downhaul just using a bar.

I am using the 08 North XT Pinlock extension, 08 North sails and 08 North masts. One would think that all North products would be compatible. I have tried rigging the rope in various different arrangements but it still kept 'sawing' over the pulley.

I have been considering purchasing a new extension, but I really dont think that is the problem. Not sure what to do. Having minimal downhaul really detracts from the performance of the North RAM F8 sails I can only just get enough downhaul to get out on the water and even then it is only when I increase the amount of extension so there is a big gap between the sail-pulley and extension-pulley. Any tips would be gratefully accepted!
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Old 13th February 2008, 12:36 PM   #13
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Matt
Firstly the min and max stickers on some(all?) of the early Ram F8 sails into the market were put on in the wrong place. The stickers were placed too far into the sail and its very difficult or extreme downhaul is needed to get near the max mark.
Suggest first to check if your sails suffer this.
Next buy a streamline extension. The pullies line up perfectly and no problem to wind on downhaul.
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Old 13th February 2008, 02:35 PM   #14
JJay
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Hi guys,

I've had the same problem with all my sails when using the North XT pinlock extension.
It's not too bad with my smaller sails, (less tension required). However, with sails of 9m and over, the tension on the downhaul rope cutting over the edge of the last roller of the sails pulley is simply dangerous!

I have snapped new downhaul rope on a number of occasions while rigging my 11m Warp (very frustrating). I then replaced the rope with the White NP RSX type (best cord money can buy) I was using the 42cm model set at 28cm for my 11m Warp however by setting it to 30cm I found it much easier to rig and tune. Adding an extra 1 or 2cm of extension stops the last part of the rope that feeds into the cleat from being pulled or cut across the roller too much. (interesting that we are talking about ICE wave sails all the way up to FW warps,,,can't be all the sails at fault)

I used the same XT extension so many times at such high loads of tension that the 3rd tack pulley on my 11m Warp (the one closest to the mast, which feeds the last line into the cleat) actually BENT INTO THE SHAPE OF THE ROPE!!!! NO JOKE AT ALL! Imagine how much tension it takes to bend a 4mm groove into the edge of a brass pulley!!!!! Then think how strong the NP rope is to bend the brass edge without snapping!!!! By the way, the groove made it possible for my rope to easily thread from sail pulley to extension cleat with no danger of being cut. (would never have thought of it on my own!)

I have recently stopped using the XT pinlock extension for my race sails even though i found it to be one of the most reliable extensions i've used. (even though the cleat position was not well designed) I have now cut down the 40cm Carbon Extender to my required length and am using a simple race cup.

The reason the sail pulley doesn't rig perfectly inline with the XT extension is quite simple.
The XT has "oversized" plastic rollers which makes it easier to pull but moves the center of axis further away from the mast. The sails all have standard sized rollers. Also the sail and extension are at 90' to each other which is not normally a problem when the pulleys are of a similar size. And the last but most important bit of this puzzle is in the placement of the XT's cleat. The cleat is about 1.5cm!!!!! closer to the mast than the axis of the rollers on the extension.

Most other extensions will work perfectly with all North Sails. I'm convinced that North Sails were not designed on the XT extensions.

By the way, there have been other design oversights at North. Has anyone else had problems with the new generation of Platinum racing masts? The tail piece is very stiff indeed by fitting over the main tube of the boom instead of into it as is the norm. But one simple problem is that the tail piece needs to be hollow to fit "over" the boom. This means it fills with water!!! Carrying a couple of liters of water around in the end of your race boom makes sail handling a whole new experience.

Anyway, this must all sound very confusing and pointless to a lot of people. However if you have used the XT series with a North Sail you may have experienced this dilemma yourself. Oh, and I agree with the last poster about the RAMS Min and Max wind settings. Think of Min wind mark as Max instead.

Relax and go fast

P.S I also use the streamlined extensions for my Slalom sails.

Last edited by JJay; 13th February 2008 at 02:38 PM. Reason: p.s
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Old 13th February 2008, 05:00 PM   #15
matt12
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Wow ... I am lucky to find you helpful guys!! I have been thinking about posting a thread about rigging North sails with the XT extension but I felt it was too much of a stupid newbie question and I would get no replies so I didn't bother! I thought there must be a simple answer that I am overlooking and during the 15 mins I take to rig these stupid North sails with the XT that it would eventually click and I would realise the obvious mistake i was making (even after my 10 yrs of windsurfing experience). I am relieved that others have experienced the same problem.

I have the doc on the RAM settings but I am yet to check out my sails. I try to avoid using my RAMs because they are such a hassle to rig with the stupid XT extension.

I have already been making enquiries about buying the Streamlined extensions, so I think it might be time to invest in a couple and auction off the XTs & Power XT on EBAY

I will keep my eyes open for the NP RSX rope.
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Old 13th February 2008, 05:03 PM   #16
matt12
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Hmm .. oh and thanks for the tip on the Platinum boom ... that one is also going on Ebay soon!

For my next sail purchases, I am going back to Sailworks!
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Old 13th February 2008, 05:09 PM   #17
AlexWind
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A few questions: about the white monofilm I hear it was a second one glued in the first year (2006) and it was replaced by a thicker one in the next years (07 and 08), is that right?

For downhaul instrument I really "get in love" with the Power XT: superb work even with 8 meters sails! The best for my needs..

Ropes and extentions for formulas and bigger slalom sails: try the Marlow Formuline..
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Old 14th February 2008, 03:55 AM   #18
matt12
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Power XT works well with most sails but doesn't work with large size 07 & 08 North sails as the downhaul rope saws across the across of the pulleys creating intense friction and increased forces are required.

But yes .. I loved it previously with other sail brands.
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Old 14th February 2008, 01:35 PM   #19
matt12
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This is really frustrating ... just got home from work and it is a fantastic afternoon for a sail ... 18 knt seabreeze, sunny, warm .... but I really can't be bothered knowing the frustration that I will have with the North RAM F8 sails .... Particularly now knowing that I haven't missed anything obvious and that other people are also experiencing the same problem
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Old 14th February 2008, 03:43 PM   #20
stingray
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i just can't believe it that you wouldn't sail if it is sunny, warm and 18knts of wind... the sails can't be that bad...
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