Old 3rd April 2008, 12:48 AM   #11
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I've been living in a converted storage shed in Haiku; it's all I could afford. Thanks to the TVR ban, I'm moving into a nicely fixed-up studio at the beach - a former illegal TVR. Prices on long-term rentals for locals are down. The Tavares plan is working. When the County gets done shutting down all the TVRs that are still operating illegally, things should be even better for locals. Guess what? You tourists can whine, but we're the ones who vote here. Amen, Mayor.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 03:51 AM   #12
Ken
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I have only been to Maui once and it was a good experience. I stayed in a condo in Kihea which worked out well.

I certainly don't know much about all the issues here, but one thing for sure for resort communities that rely on tourism, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you.

It may be that the impact is only on visiting windsurfers, surfers and kiters that can't afford the big resorts, which are also not practical for windsurfers. If no one comes to Maui to sail or surf, I can see why the locals would like the plan, especially if it doesn't impact the economy.

However, I wonder how the new cheaper rents will impact the property owners in the long term as well as having fewer tourists. It will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

I wonder how the Maui locals would feel if they came to the mainland and the locals welcomed them and showed them all the good places to sail and surf as well as sharing a beer on the beach. I live in a place like that, too bad its not everywhere.
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Old 4th April 2008, 06:19 AM   #13
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Ken,

Your comments are quite meaningful in my mind.

However, for some personal perspective, I'll offer some further thoughts about the Maui situation, at least from my perspective.

My first trip to Maui was in 1991, but I'd already done significant time on Kauai since 1977. What I realized by the mid-80s in trips to Kauai is that it was paramount to be located on the beach at your dream spot (Northshore is the prime spot there too). I started my experiences at Maui on the beach at John and Louise Severson's property between the public "Speckelsville" launch and Sugercove. No driving around, and able to sail to Kanaha or even to Hookipa (which I did, and had the opportunity to make unexpected runs along with Robby Naish), and really everywhere in between. I did 6 trips from 91-97, and all were at the Severson property. I think I got real value in my vacations. So, the idea of driving around as a commuter for fun has to be viewed as a bit too foreign and foolish.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid things have changed considerably. I'm quite sure that an increased interest in the Northshore experience has skewed Maui's view of how they want to develop and control growth. I think that's reflected in the majority thought and focus of Maui's current county representatives.

However, I think that many of the "voices" posted here are not truly authentic. I think that they're contrived voices that are trying to create a specious "locals" position, which I surmise is actually based on large monied interests on the island. As I'm sure that you understand, the little guy is never the real focus and concern. Monied interests are at the heart of the situation. I live in a "vacation type" locale that is world recognized, so I know that the illusions presented by some are just offered to suit there interests.

Time will tell if great windurfing is able to thrive on Maui.

Last edited by steveC; 4th April 2008 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 4th April 2008, 08:46 AM   #14
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First, while there are some illegal beachfront TVRs, the majority are in the residential neighborhoods of Haiku etc. These are what people object to, although to be sure the beachfront ones, with their big new fences and electronic gates, are not popular with the fishermen.

Second, there is no money to be made shutting down illegal TVRs. The idea that 'monied interests' are somehow behind the law enforcement is absurd. Think about it - illegal TVRs have artificially inflated property values and rental prices. The 'monied interests' (multiple home owners etc.) are profiting BIG TIME from illegal TVRs.

Can you imagine that many local residents would be in favor of cheaper housing and lower rents? I'll bet everyone else can.
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Old 4th April 2008, 11:06 PM   #15
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SteveC,

Thanks for your insight. My concern for any top windsurfing destination is for the visitors to have a positive experience; the locals to respect the value of the visitors, be friendly, and for everyone to play fair with the dollars charged or spent.

Historically, Hawaiian surfers have had a reputation of being "less than hospitable" towards tourists. I don't know about windsurfers and kiters, but I suspect there are some that don't want anyone sharing "their water" either. I suspect that this attitude can surface anywhere it gets too crowded. Lake sailors like myself certainly complain plenty about the boaters and jet skis that like to get too close, but for our "own kind", I have never experienced anything but friendliness, regardless of whether they are local or not.
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Old 5th April 2008, 02:35 AM   #16
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Ken,

You and I think very similarly about wanting a friendly and positive attitude meeting up with others that enjoy windsurfing and kiting. Having come to windsurfing from a surfing background, I was really stoked about how personable and open windsurfers tended to be. As a surfer, I tended to be less inclined towards easy relaxed communications because of the competitive nature of sport and the pressures of the lineup. Windsurfing was a real breath of fresh air, and it opened a new door in my life that I enjoy so much.

Regarding Maui, I really hope that things don't change so much from what I've known and appreciated so much from past experiences. The way things now appear, much of the aloha and positive spirit is at risk. Of course, it could be likely that much of the negativeness we're hearing is quite limited, and a friendly easy going attitude still thrives on Maui. However, if the Northshore experience is closed to visitors and stiffled, I know at least for me, that it won't be worth it to vacation in Maui. Too many other quality spots to choose from that are open and friendly.

Needless to say, I still hope for the best.
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Old 5th April 2008, 04:33 AM   #17
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While the locals in the Hawaiian Islands are pretty territorial about their surf breaks, in 25 years of surfing here I've never experienced anything that was as bad as a typical day in California. The whole 'my beach' mindset originated in CA, and for anyone from there to point fingers is pretty sad.

But that is surfing. There never has been much attitude in windsurfing, and there is even less now, except maybe during a crowded day at Ho'okipa. Windsurfing crowds have actually diminished to the point where you can sail some pretty good spots with just a few other people. There has NEVER been a better time to windsurf Maui, at least not since the very early 80s. On a historic note, in the early 80s, I stayed in Kihei, and I can tell you that a lot of the local windsurfing community at the time bought houses over there at places like Maui Meadows because it was MORE CONVENIENT TO THE SPOTS THEY SAILED EVERY DAY THAN HAIKU, where most of the illegal TVRs are located.

Yes, there have been some stupid altercations between surfers and windsurfers at Ho'okipa - a rehash of some old issues recently brought on by the fact that the illegal TVRs which have inflamed the local community are very windsurfing oriented, and the surfers (basically long time locals) were lashing out wherever they could at the 'enemy'. Things seem to be settling down now, and I expect they continue to do so - 'aloha' is one of the most appealing things about Hawaii, and it is never far from the surface.
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Old 5th April 2008, 06:03 AM   #18
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I find the recurring phase "illegal TVRs" noteworthy, if only for its new found prominence on the scene.

It's interesting on how some would like to creat a reality, and try to influence an understanding of things out there. Sounds to me like a cagey lawyer's voice to sway the jury.
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Old 5th April 2008, 06:58 AM   #19
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By 'illegal TVRs', I was referring to 'TVR's or 'transient vacation rentals' that are 'illegal' or 'against the law'. I use that term to distinguish them from 'legal TVRs', which are 'TVR's that are 'legal' or 'comply with the law'. There are plenty of 'legal TVRs' on the north shore of Maui, and no-one I know has any problem whatsoever with them.

Please also note that those laws have been on the books for a long time. We are just now coming out of an era of extremely lax enforcement, during which time a lot of people have made a lot of money violating those laws.

I hope this helps with your effort to understand this issue.
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Old 5th April 2008, 07:44 AM   #20
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Was that actually "travel" or "transient"? I would think that many vacationers are truly travelers rather than transients. I think most folks have a negative view of real transients, as they are more likely folks that have no job, income or responsibility, and they're just moving through at the communities' expense. Under the circumstances, I'm afraid your comments are clearly specious and poorly presented.

Please remember here that this forum is an international community. I think that Maui's long range focus and interests honestly deserve a more credible presentation.
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