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Old 5th June 2008, 04:02 PM   #91
MarcCasaldaliga
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Default 2part serenity+formula

Hi Aco and James,

I've been thinking for a while about the an all wind windsurf class and also came to the conclusion than a serenity+formula board+1rig would be the winning choice:

(http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3493
my original idea was for a high wind or small formula for a confortable ride in high winds, but that's another topic)

But as James points out traveling with BOTH a crazy wide and crazy long boards would be a nightmare (not only in international flights)
My solution for that was a 2 PART serenity. Two parts that once stored in a special bag could be moreless of the same height and than the formula.

Being a displacement hull the extra weight for the 2 part attachment wouldn't be so important. I also have thought on a detailed concept on how to made such attachment

What do you think of that solution

Best regards

Marc
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Old 5th June 2008, 06:40 PM   #92
Aco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Of course, while two boards might be great for a non-Olympic class, I am virtually certain that the Olympic committee will never allow it.
I am far from being an Olympic expert, but my question is simply...Why not?

If the Olympic Committee prescribes the board for the Regatta (or for the entire day) according to the Forecast and the current conditions, the race remains One-Design, and a pretty fast (if not fastest) one at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Not to mention the fact that international travel with a 450 cm long board AND a 100 cm wide board would be a nightmare.
A nightmare?
How could then travelling with a 49er or a Star be described
I believe it would still be by far the easiet Olympic sailing class to Travel with..

It seems to me that a 2-Boards-1-Sail WS sailing class has hardly any disadvantage compared to ANY other Olympic sailing class:
(+) Most Easy to Transport
(+) Fastest in ANY conditions
(+) Cheapest

What more could you pretend
All the Best,
Aco
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Old 6th June 2008, 12:51 AM   #93
steveC
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Without a doubt, I still think Aco is right on target, but the package would definitely be improved by Marc's two piece Serenity concept.

My biggest dilemma with the Serenity is that it is incredibly long. While I've bit the bullet anyway despite the storage and transportation difficulties I face, the two piece Serenity would totally alleviate the problem. I know that I would pay a premium for the two piece concept in spite of the added weight factor. Really though, I think that if the concept was engineered and built using carbon fiber interfaces, I don't think the added weight would be that significant.

I believe that if Starboard tapped into the design engineering expertise that someone like boogie has, the outcome would likely be outstanding. Of course, Marc's ideas about this could very well be worth considering too. I've seen two piece surfboards (longboard) in the past, so the idea is not really farfetched. Given the larger bearing surfaces that a two piece Serenity would offer, I'm thinking that the design interfaces, in contrast to much thinner surfboard, would not be as difficult to realize.
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Old 6th June 2008, 08:00 PM   #94
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Default 2 boards

Funny, I was looking for a place to post the 2 boards idea. never seen the board, but if it's working in 4-8 knts it could work together with a light (7kg) 85/90 cm board. Using a super deep 10m2 this could work with only 1 sail. Still, we talk about WIND surfing and the senerty or any non-planing board should not represent windsurfing other then a substitude board.

A 85cm is used in the current PWA racing and is representing modern windsurfing fully.

The low-wind board can be given on site to the competitors. It may be heavy too, as long as it's not planing anyway.

Adri
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Old 6th June 2008, 10:19 PM   #95
Joe
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Round & round we go.

It always amazes me that windsurfers always end up focusing on the "pros" and then complain later that there is no grass roots or growth to the sport.

Who cares about air travel and the pros getting gear to races!
Focus on the grass roots. What almost killed windsurfing was a focus on high wind/ hoopika windsurfing that the grass roots will never experience.

I think that the 2 boards and 1 sail is a brilliant idea. Racing/practicing/recreational sailing could be peformed anywhere in the world on a very high percentage of days at or near the highest performance level. This is exactly what windsurfing needs.

The travel details will work themselves out in the end.
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Old 7th June 2008, 12:06 AM   #96
Aco
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Hi Marc!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcCasaldaliga View Post
But as James points out traveling with BOTH a crazy wide and crazy long boards would be a nightmare (not only in international flights)
My solution for that was a 2 PART serenity. Two parts that once stored in a special bag could be moreless of the same height and than the formula.
...
What do you think of that solution
I agree with you that such a solution would be a big advantage for travelling.
When I purchased the Serenity I thought about an even more exotic solution with 2 different Halves:

(+) the FRONT-HALF (e.g. ahead of the Mast Track, because it doesn't withstand any significant Loads) could be HOLLOW in order to slide the Back-Half inside and save space even further when Travelling / Storing
(+) the BACK-HALF could be Foam-Filled in order to assure Floatability if the front Half tears

For additional safety, an optional multi-Compartment Air-inflatable bag could be inserted in the HOLLOW FRONT-HALF while sailing in order to improve floatability in the case of Cracks / Tearing.

Anyway, even with a 1-piece Serenity the class would still be the most Transportable Olympic Class, as stated above.
Aco

Last edited by Aco; 7th June 2008 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 7th June 2008, 01:22 AM   #97
James
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2 boards, 2 pieces = 2 complicated, IMHO.
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Old 7th June 2008, 01:44 AM   #98
AlexWind
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Great initiative!
Totally agree with Starboard!
Go boys go!
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Old 7th June 2008, 05:44 AM   #99
C249
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Funny, some of us have been proposing a similar idea for many years, but until a manufacturer's name was stuck to the concept no-one else was interested! :-)

After all, this is basically what the Tour de France windsurfing or the old Amateur Funboard World Championships (later F42) did 20 years ago - and it was great!

The Serenity is a great board (whether it's better than a Div 2 I don't know) but as Joe says, we may need something to appeal to the average sailor; you don't get much of a peak without a foundation. The Serenity is not something that the average sailor (even the many longboard racers who still make up most of the race fleets in many or most areas) can relate to. Maybe a flatter board that will still plane (more like a modern Mistral Superlight) would be better. Same with the shortboard; an 85cm wide board is much closer to the sort of gear that most people sail, and if we have a longboard we don't need a board that can plane early.

The longboard could be a strict one design whiteboard, with a fleet or two supplied by the manufacturer to ISAF or for major regattas. Sailors wouldn't have to fly their longboards everywhere, they could just pick one up at the regatta. The shortboard could be any production slalom board, to satisfy those who don't want one-designs.

James, IMHO the solution to air rowing could be fairly simple - ban it!! The on-course judging works pretty well in classes like Lasers, and these days there are small video cameras that can be used to provide proof of the judges' calls. Plus, we now have many hot-shot retired racers who are good enough to be judges.

Unregistered, about "Still, we talk about WIND surfing and the senerty or any non-planing board should not represent windsurfing other then a substitude board."

One knot of wind, four knots, 26 knots - whatever the strength, moving air is still wind. That's a simple fact. So anytime a board is sailing in moving air, it's a WINDsurfer.

Formula board and Serenity boards don't sail in surf (ie breaking waves). So they never sail in surf - so then why call them windSURFers?

Schweitzer and Salisbury and Drake called it "windsurfing" when you were standing on a big long board in light winds - don't the people who created the sport and term know what it means?
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Old 7th June 2008, 01:14 PM   #100
fattyfattybonbon
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If I may, I believe that the idea would be unfeasible and rathhttp://www.star-board.com/forum/images/icons/icon2.gif
Arrower too complicated for one's liking. Imagine that the ap flag has been dropped (warning signal for racing) and you head out towards the starting area. The wind picks up and you are still standing on your serenity board. With around 3 minutes until the first race begins, decisions race into your head.

Do I head back into shore to change into my formula one design board or do I stick with the serenity. One board is more compatible and less of a hassle when racing.

Comments saying that it would still be the cheapest out of all the sailing classes to transport around is another way of saying that the cost does not matter, as long as it is under the threshold of other classes. It would still be expensive. Full stop.

I hope that the rs:x stays on for 2012 and perhaps the olympics after that, as it represents the olympic spirit of fighting and fitness. If formula board was introduced, then only the competitors that could plane the earliest would excel- (the lightest sailors in the light winds). It would mean technique over fitness and endurance. oO. The whole point of an olympic event is to introduce tight competition and 'survival of the fittest' comes into place.

Another point- does the formula board maintain high performance in strong winds with its ultra wide surface area? In choppy conditions it would be virtually unsailable. The RS:X was designed to compromise with light winds and strong winds and works- a win: win situation.

What is wrong with it?
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