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Old 7th June 2008, 04:06 PM   #101
Aco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyfattybonbon View Post
If I may, I believe that the idea would be unfeasible and rather too complicated for one's liking. Imagine that the ap flag has been dropped (warning signal for racing) and you head out towards the starting area. The wind picks up and you are still standing on your serenity board. With around 3 minutes until the first race begins, decisions race into your head.
Do I head back into shore to change into my formula one design board or do I stick with the serenity.
I believe this dilemma could be resolved simply by letting the Comittee decide (on the basis of the forecast and/or conditions) which board should be used for the Regatta (or half the day, or the entire day, whatever is more convenient).

This makes your dilemma above a non-issue: you stay on the Serenity, because for this Regatta (or entire day?) the Committee has decided that there is not enough wind to be expected for the Formula and the Serenity should be used.

You have nothing to worry about because everybody will be on the Serenity. If the Serenity handles moderate winds + 12.5m2 sail without major problems for me, then for an Olympian + 11m2 sail it should be a non-issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyfattybonbon View Post
One board is more compatible and less of a hassle when racing.
Comments saying that it would still be the cheapest out of all the sailing classes to transport around is another way of saying that the cost does not matter, as long as it is under the threshold of other classes. It would still be expensive. Full stop.
I agree with you:
with 2 boards we are trading Transportability and Cost for Performance.

If the former are more important to the competitors, then the RSX is just fine, a High-Pefrormance Longboard (Phantom Race?) probably even better.

I just like performance and thus put it above all other criteria, which is why the 2-board solutions seems so appealing to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyfattybonbon View Post
I hope that the rs:x stays on for 2012 and perhaps the olympics after that, as it represents the olympic spirit of fighting and fitness.
...
What is wrong with it?
If the Olympic WS sailors like it, then there is nothing wrong.

I just like performance as stated above and believe that racing would be more thrilling if you always had the highest-performance craft under your feet.

Just my 2 cents.
All the Best,
Aco
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Old 7th June 2008, 04:42 PM   #102
C249
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FattyBB, fitness and endurance are only part of the Olympic spirit according to the IOC itself. The first of all the "Fundamental Principles of Olympism" from the Olympic Charter says that "Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind." So according to the IOC's first and most basic tenet, mind (ie technique) is as important as body and will.

It's interesting to look at the report of the committee that chose the last Olympic board. They wanted "to re-establish windsurfing as a mainstream, popular racing discipline for youth and adult sailing throughout the world" and "to re-unite the windsurfing community, so that all windsurfers will regard the Olympic regatta as the pinnacle event in windsurfing". The boat was supposed to inspire kids (maybe the T293's success proves the RSX works for that) and to be "consistent with mainstream windsurfing as it is performed worldwide."

A hybrid, Serenity (or Div 2 board) and a Formula board all fail pretty much all of these criteria.

Aco, you may like performance (and that's cool) but most people who race under sail do so in pretty slow gear. FW is pretty damn quick but it's also not really very popular, so it seems that many (most?) windsurfer racers also feel that sheer speed is not the main requirement.
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Old 7th June 2008, 06:25 PM   #103
fattyfattybonbon
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That is all very well, but what about strong wind performance.

The formula board claims that it can plane really early in as little as 6 knots, but once it surpasses 15 knots, its performance deteriorates almost instantly. It starts to waver and control gets out of hand. Also, the formula board is harder to pump.

As an avid RS:X racer myself, I believe that we should just stick to the RS:X equipment. Yes, it is more strenuous work and more expensive, but think of the races which involve tactical thinking and strategy.

Some opinions on this please!
Best Regards
FFBB
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Old 8th June 2008, 01:26 AM   #104
steveC
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Regarding the RS:X, if it wasn't picked as the Olympic OD, how many folks would actually buy it? I would think that it would attract even fewer folks than formula, if any at all. At least with formula equipment, there are many folks out there that sail the stuff for fun outside of a racing focus.

With respect to earlier comments about formula biasing those with a particular body type, that could be true, but that can be said about many of the sports in the Olympics. How many big gymnists do you see, and how many lightweight shot-put contestants does one see. I could go on and on, but I think one can understand that many Olympic sports favor certain body types.
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Old 8th June 2008, 03:10 PM   #105
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Yes, but in sailing you can change the optimum body type just by changing the class rules or the wind conditions.
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Old 8th June 2008, 04:16 PM   #106
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Besides, Formula does not represent the majority of windsurfers. Your biggest argument is earlier planing and suiting the body weight of the majority of windsurfers. By windsurfers you probably mean heavy and tall muscular windsurfers and that the current RS:X class is more suited towards lighter sailors in light winds and heavier sailors in the stronger winds. This is why it is interesting to see how consistent the windsurfers need to be to fare well in the competition.

True, early planing does look more appealing the the media and audience on shore, but what about those who can't plane do to their technique/ posture...e.t.c. The competition would be down to those who can get on the plane the earliest and the racing would not be as close as it currently is.

50%+ of races in regattas take place in under 6 knots of winds, and to meet the threshold of racing would mean more waiting...waiting..waiting and more waiting!

Steve C, your earlier comment about how the norm do not own RS:X boards, for freesailing or what have you. But the feeder class- the techno 293 is all about it! Furthermore, what about the current RS:X sailors. The transition would get difficult to get used to and only the formula sailors would benefit the most.

As always, I open to any suggestions on this
Cheers,
FattyFattyBonBon
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Old 8th June 2008, 06:24 PM   #107
AlexWind
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Well even in FW in light winds lightsailors have some advantage and heavy in medium and stronger have a plus but limiting the sails size there'll be more competition in medium-high winds..

About the perchentage of regattas taken in <6knots winds it depends on the place where they're taken.. It seams to me fat to much 50%+...
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Old 8th June 2008, 10:06 PM   #108
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Just tested out the Serenity, that thing is off the hook!!! forget formula put the serenity forward as an Olympic option a great board for tactical sailing applications and would be a excellent test of skill in 15 knots +
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Old 9th June 2008, 01:22 AM   #109
steveC
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I think that FattyFattyBonBon's comment that better than 50% of the racing occurs at less than 6 knots really makes the case for use of a second board (Serenity), as Aco has advocated. Really, a great idea.

The two board solution could mix outcomes favoring light versus heavy sailors depending on wind strengths during racing, but it just might benefit the medium weight sailor overall, especially if the mixture of athletic and tactical strengths and skills were keenly developed. Also I think, the modest sized OD sail would tend to balance things more towards the center.

But there's no getting around the fact that the wind conditions could ultimately influence outcomes. I guess things really depend on how many races are run over a period of time to determine the medal outcome. But, the Olympic moment(s) is one of the classic features of the games. You got to be able to do it all in the conditions and timeframe specified. Although a given sailor might be the best rated sailor in the lightest of winds, that sailor may not come out on top if all the racing is run in strong winds. A victim of circumstances? Yes, that could be rationalized, but I doubt that it would find traction in the Olympic arena.

Lastly, concerning FattyFattyBonBon's reservations about how changing the equipment could ultimately disadvantage RS:X sailors, it must be remembered that the next Olympics is 4 years away in 2012. In my mind, that's a considerable period of time to develop and hone the needed skills. In reality, I wonder if the Olympic competitors from 2004 feel shortchanged with the introduction of the RS:X, but does it really matter? Furthermore, the idea that a competitor should be able to come back and compete in multiple Olympics over time, shouldn't be rooted in a unchanging world, but rather one that like real life, where change is a paramount factor that we all have to deal with and hopefully thrive.
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Old 15th June 2008, 09:43 PM   #110
Remi
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Hi All,

FWOD presentation with the stiff alloy boom at the Star-Board meeting who distributors try the equipment. Please found below the photos.









All the best

Last edited by Remi; 15th June 2008 at 09:53 PM.
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