Go Back   Starboard Forums > Free Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28th May 2008, 04:37 PM   #81
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sail Quick View Post
I take issue with it being called windsurfing, it should have its own name so it is not an embarassment to real windsurfers, I think it should be called 'Pump boarding for skinny people' or something.

"air rowing" was the term coined by former ISAF president Paul Henderson to describe the kinetics of the olympic windsurfing class.
Spot on, if I do saw so myself!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2008, 03:48 AM   #82
Ken
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
Posts: 799
Default

Windsurfing, Boardsailing or whatever, it is what it is - a board powered by the wind & a sail. If it is on a wave or in 20 knots, 50 knots or 3 knots of wind, it is "Windsurfing".

My early days of racing in the mid 80's was a real kick. Most races were in light winds on Superlights, Windsurfers, Windwings, Bic's, some DII boards (Crit), etc. Skill, technique and race strategy were essential if you wanted to be competative. It was a lot of fun, having 30 - 40 boards packed together fighting for wind and position. Not exceptionally exciting when compared to running down wind on a Formula board in 30 knots of wind, but nevertheless, tons of fun. It's not for everyone, but for those with a competitive spirit, racing has its place.

There are lots of recreational windsurfers that never know how limited their skills are until they begin to race. When you have a fixed course that requires you to point as high and run as deep as possible, jibe or tack at a specific point, you are forced to learn new skills. Being at the starting line at a specific time in order to have a good start requires good skills at managing the position of your board in all sorts of wind conditions. Racing simply makes you a better sailor because it quickly identifies your weaknesses. Can you be a great windsurfer without competition? Sure, and those with the desire and drive to be accomplished at whatever turns them on, they will eventually get there.

The advancements in equipment have been amazing in the last 30 years. Much of that can be attributed to competition (racing, waves, freestyle, speed, etc). If it weren't for this competition, the drive and desire for higher performance gear would not be nearly as strong. Name an active sport which relies on equipment like cars, snow skiing, snowmobiles, jet skis, kite boards, shooting, sailing, rowing, water skiing and on and on. All of these have had significant technological and performance advancements as a result of racing or competition.

For those that don't like pumping, you might be surprised at how much you do if you are an accomplished windsurfer. It is an essential skill that at the least, gets you on plane out of a tack, jibe, catching a wave, or just getting off the beach. Good pumping skills are essential if you race no matter the wind conditions. Great exercise at the least.

Don't knock what doesn't turn you on, we are all having fun in our own way. It's just that a few of you are a bit more enthusiastic about what you think is the best way to have fun and possibly a bit closed minded if someone doesn't agree.
Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2008, 07:14 AM   #83
C249
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sail Quick View Post
I take issue with it being called windsurfing, it should have its own name so it is not an embarassment to real windsurfers, I think it should be called 'Pump boarding for skinny people' or something.
SQ, lots of people disagree with the unrestricted pumping. But surely it's a long way over the top to say that the Olympic guys, who sail so brilliantly (hell, they could even flat-water loop their IMCOs) and who sail full-time, are not "real windsurfers" when they sail in light winds.

If we followed your line and said that light wind windsurfing wasn't windsurfing, then if Jim Drake and Hoyle Schweitzer and Bert Salisbury (the guy who coined the term "windsurfer") all got together on a Windsurfer (trademark) board in the sort of winds they used to sail in, then they wouldn't be "windsurfing". That doesn't seem right.

It also doesn't seem right that if you were sailing an original Windsurfer (TM) in 25 knots then you wouldn't be "windsurfing"; or if you hit a lull you'd somehow suddenly change from "windsurfing" to "pump boarding for skinny people". I've seen top FW sailors, Naish and Dunkerbeck fall off the plane and pump on their shortboards.....did they suddenly stop windsurfing and move into another sport while that went on? Or is mid-race slogging and pumping on slalom gear "windsurfing", while mid-race slogging and pumping (while going faster) on an RSX is not "windsurfing"?

Other sports don't rob the original version of their name when they develop. Cross country ski racing is IMHO like RSX-ing and different to downhill skiing, but downhillers don't say that it's not real skiing. Modern surfing is different to surfing of the 1930s, but no-one says that the Duke wasn't surfing. Modern F1 is different to that of the '40s, but no one says Fangio wasn't a Formula 1 legend. Modern skiff sailing and ocean racing is different to that of the 1800s and early 1900s, but no-one says the old guys weren't sailors.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2008, 11:20 AM   #84
steveC
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 639
Default

Well, Ken, you might want to be just a bit more cautious in your comments. While I have to agree that racing offers many sailors an advantage using various sailing and tactical techniques in a certain arena and associated situations, I think that one would hard pressed to agree that would help you in all discipines.

Nevertheless, I can't fault you on the position that professional level windsurfers have contributed immensely to the sport as a whole. But, we must remember that the most outstanding achievements in the sport aren't always attributable to racing. If one was to consider how wavesailing, freestyle and speedsailing advancements have affected the development and character of the sport, it becomes all to clear that it's a pretty broad spectrum. Really, one has to admire all round sailors like Kevin and Matt Pritchard, Beorn Dunkerbeck, Robby Naish, and AA (just to mention a few) that have played a multifaceted game that cuts across so many different disciplines. No question that these guys have exhibited an awesome bag of tricks to have performed like they do and gained the recognition they have over time.
steveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2008, 10:27 PM   #85
Ken
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
Posts: 799
Default

steveC,

I don't think that I implied that racing "would help you in all disciplines". I said:

"There are lots of recreational windsurfers that never know how limited their skills are until they begin to race.". "Racing simply makes you a better sailor because it quickly identifies your weaknesses".

"Racing" includes, Formula, one design, Olympic, slalom, course slalom & longboard.

My experience with our local sailors in north Texas is that when we have our two major local regattas, we have excellent turn outs, but they are mostly recreational sailors. 80% do not travel around the state to race, but they do take part in these two events for the fun and weekend camping experience. Most of these "part time" racers are competent windsurfers, but it's clear that the majority of them lack the skills and techniques to be truly fast and efficient around a course on their boards. Many have difficulty with everything but beam reaching. I think many of them come away from the events with a better understanding of their weaknesses and shortcomings, and I am certain that some will re-focus their efforts to improve on some of their weaker skills.

My comments related to equipment improvements and their relationship to competition suggest that team riders and sponsored riders (almost all involved in competition) are responsible for much of the improvements we see in today's equipment. Their feedback to manufactures regarding what will make the (board, sail, boom, mast, fin) better for their competitions is the reason we have such fantastic gear to choose from. Not all of it is "high performance" gear, but much of the recreational and beginner gear is better today because of the advancements on the high tech side of the sport. Better materials, designs, durability, performance, etc.

I am sure that you compete while you are sailing, just not in regattas. If you and a buddy are sailing side by side and he begins to pull away, I would bet that you would make every effort to stay with him. That's competition and racing in its most basic form.

It's just that some of us just choose to compete in a more structured and formal form - regattas.

Ken

Last edited by Ken; 29th May 2008 at 10:32 PM.
Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2008, 12:52 AM   #86
steveC
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 639
Default

Ken,

My previous comments were probably a little too pointed. My apologies. Actually, I'm sure you're quite right that racing will reveal your strengths and weaknesses as a sailor pretty quickly, and in addition, I'm also sure that one would ultimately learn much more about of the subtleties of rig and board tuning.

While I've never raced, there's a lot of truth to your comments about adjustments you might make in your sailing style and strategies when sailing with others to advance your performance potential. I find too, that one also begins to use the subtleties in the wind and water conditions to improve one's position. Of course, much of this is informal and unstructured, but we all like come out ahead just for the fun and challenge in it.
steveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2008, 02:08 AM   #87
Aco
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33
Default Formula One Design + Serenity ???

Dear All,

I LOVE my formula boards: they develop incredible SPEED at very low winds, are able of remarkable sailing angles and cover a really wide range of windspeeds.

BUT most of the Spots Worldwide experience NON-Planing conditions most of the time, even for my 73kg of Weight combined with my beloved Formula + 12.5m Sail!

In those conditions I pull out my Serenity + 12.5m Sail and FLY along with my back skimming over the water while the Formulas schlog! Its Fast! And best of all, when the wind picks up I keep the same sail and simply switch to the Formula and continue Flying!

So here is my question:
Why not an Olympic WS class with:
(+) 1 Formula board,
(+) 1 Sail,
(+) 1 Serenity Board?

It could be the same "Formula One Design" kit as proposed by StarBoard with the addition of Serenity.

It would:
(+) still be waaaay more TRANSPORTABLE than any other olympic sailing class,
(+) be Raceable in ANY WIND, from 1 knot up,
(+) be probably still CHEAPER than the current Olympic WS class,
and best of all...
(+) be way FASTER than the current Olympic WS class and probably also all the other olympic classes in ANY CONDITIONS!

If the race should be One-Design, the Organizers could Prescribe the board to be used before the Regatta:
(+) <6 knots...Serenity
(+) >6 knots...Formula

So what do we have to lose?
We would still race Formula all the time when applicable, BUT in non-planing conditions also have a Regatta, a Result and a Medal, all this being probably the fastest class all the time!

I am very interested in your opinions.
With Kind Regards,
Aco
Aco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2008, 02:34 AM   #88
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I like Aco's idea too.
Although I would suggest a formula, a serenity (or similar), and a 10-10.5 sail. Racing from 3 -25 knots. Make the fin switchable to reduce costs. Let the rider decide what to sail formula or serenity.
Formula One Design is a great idea but lacking on the lower wind racing that is very common.
Formula 31 lacks this low wind component as well and it is much more expensive.

Formula 12 (1 sail 2 boards)
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2008, 02:49 AM   #89
steveC
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 639
Default

Hi Aco,

If all goes well, I anticipate receiving my Serenity in a few weeks. While I never have used a board like a Serenity, I'm looking forward to leveraging the kind of performance that it offers.

Regarding your proposal to add the Serenity to augment Starboard's 2012 formula proposal, I think that it's an outstanding solution. Not only would it broaden the wind range where racing could be successfully played out, it would ultimately improve the capability and experience of the athletes involved. And as a real plus, the need for all the air rowing pumping stuff would be kept to a minimum.

Great job!
steveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2008, 12:43 PM   #90
James
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 236
Default

There are basically four types of windsurf boards that one could consider for an Olympic one-design class:

1) A pure displacement board, like the Serenity
2) A compromise board that leans towards displacement, like the MOD
3) A compromise board that leans towards planing, like the RSX
4) A pure planing board, like the FOD

Like Aco and SteveC say, if you could choose any TWO boards it would make the most sense to choose #1 and #4.

Of course, while two boards might be great for a non-Olympic class, I am virtually certain that the Olympic committee will never allow it. Not to mention the fact that international travel with a 450 cm long board AND a 100 cm wide board would be a nightmare.

That leaves a choice of just one board from options 1-4. A pure displacement board wouldn't provide the high performance in moderate to strong winds that people expect from windsurfing, so we can probably eliminate option 1. Between longboards and hybrids, the former are clearly better in light winds, and with 9.5 rigs are just as good as hybrids in strong winds, too! That eliminates wide hybrids from the running and narrows the choice to longboard or formula. They both have their pros and cons, but I think either would be a good Olympic class. To decide between them, the committee should ask itself this question: Which is more important- reducing "air rowing" or insuring a result at all regattas?
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 03:44 PM.