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Old 9th October 2008, 04:36 PM   #11
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Default Phantom 380 Review

In our recently started racing season in Australia there are a number of Phantoms racing. So far the board has proved competitive but not to competitive. There is an interesting review of the board at http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/
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Old 10th October 2008, 01:49 AM   #12
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I would like to put in a good word for the hybrids since there is some criticism of them above, and thanks to Starboard for the effort in developing them.

I sail an RSX and Starboard Z-class against a boat fleet and the advantage they offer is that they are easier to sail in all directions because of the stability. They can be sailed with a smaller sail than a formula because they still works in light winds without plaining. This means that it makes racing more accessible to more people with less skill.

They are slower than most boats in very light winds but they pass more and more boats as the wind gets stronger. They allow you to carry larger sails than most longboards (for a given skill level). Like every different boat or board, they require their own techniques which are not well known because they haven't been so popular.

There is no perfect board for all conditions nor a perfect boat for all conditions. I am sure that the phantom and formula are faster in most conditions but I know my hybrids are easier to sail. I race against the next vessel in front of me so there is always a challenge and an opportunity to improve.

My advice to any one who wants to race is just pick one board and have fun learning how to sail it. There is no right answer. Hybrids may have not have won over a big market but the idea did and still does have merit.
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Old 10th October 2008, 03:54 AM   #13
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Tony. One other advantage, they are faster to tack so encourage tactical racing. And yet another one. They have more variety of sailing modes. But most do feel pretty sluggish sub planning. In France there has been more racing and there the Pacer and , especially, the Bic 310 have proven top dogs. The Pacer is available in a lightweight construction too, which would be interesting to try. The Bic isn't although most seem to rate the shape most highly. Apparently a guy in France has had a custom copy built at 12kgs, might really show the concepts potential. The Prodigy is in a slightly different class, but the rest have disappeared. As would the RSX if it lost the O status.

Also in response to "the assymetrical spinnaker is something a board does not (yet..any ideas??) have." I've thought about this and came up with the idea of uisng leading edge slots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_edge_slot These allow a greater angle of attack, which should mean going deeper. Of course the sail would have to have structural integrity with some 'cut out' near the leading edge - not easy. Another problem is a slight loss of windward point due to lesser performance at small angles of attack. But theory and practice suggest the gain could be significantly larger than the loss (not that I'm an expert in the ield - just interested). However in course racing yourer bascially lost if near the back at the windward mark, so proabably wouldn't be worth the effort. Would be great to see it tried out for 'downwind dash' racing though...

Actually the longboards are pretty fast compared to most boats in many situations- the IMCO was rated the third fastest class behind the Tornado and 49'er. Never had the chance to go on a Melges but I know they are a pretty full on race kit too.
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Old 10th October 2008, 09:58 AM   #14
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I'm curious to know from LBboarder what rigs are being used with the new longboards; is it mostly 10m rigs with lots of draft and adjustments, or are people actually still using little 7.5m rigs?

Somewhere on that site, it says something about lack of deep draft rigs for longboards....all I can say is check out the glide from severne; that sail has grunt like you would not believe; it feels (in power) like a 10m but is significantly smaller than that.

I don't really follow longboarding that much; but AFAIK the Phantom was pretty competitive at a world level with the right guy sailing it. I've tried not many longboards (Kona, IMCO, Mahola, Phantom 380, 320, some other old one) and the Phantom definitely (to me) felt very very nice and planed up surprisingly early; if there was any where to race one here I'd even consider buying one; good fun.

As for kites; given the windsurf hot angles downwind scenario option and the difficulties of supporting a kite without a backstay, I'd suggest just run more area and sail windward leewards or learn to control a big rig on a reach.....would be cool to see though ;-)

The whole philosophy of sportboats like a M24 is to suffer upwind and then make it all back downwind and so you just need to paste them upwind is the best idea :-) The M24 is going to really struggle (like most sporties) in about 6-12 knots, when the apparent requires sailing angles but you can't plane to make up the extra distance..... the M24 is miles slower than a tornado or a 49er as it only does 6.7 knots (at a guess) upwind; and even for a spotrboat it is fairly mild by today's standards; this is my idea of a more extreme sportboat:
www.shawyachtdesign.com

interesting to learn the prodigy is dying; doesn't surprise me; at the end of the day a lot of those boards are being superceded by newer models; Kona presumably has stuck it to the prodigy - C249 is this what your numbers suggest?
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Old 11th October 2008, 02:47 PM   #15
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Good grief Trapeze's on a sportsboat - looks like as skiff!

Most Racboarders seem to have gone over to the offical 9.5m class - think Germany maybe an exception numers wise. To me a 9.5M balances the longboard better, but naturally does take away from the windrange without a change down.
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Old 11th October 2008, 06:59 PM   #16
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Wink ..

longboard windsurfing website has more user info on the 380.
A few guys "up the road" who ranted and raved about them bought them and are racing . However a friend of mine raced against 2 them on his equipe II in primarily light airs and found he traled them by small margins , sometimes seconds. This seems to confirm what the longboard website said the 380 is competitive but not overwhelmingly so.
However that being said , the 380 still beat him, and to some that is all that matters for a podium finish.


Yeah after sailing a melges all summer the dreaded 6 to 12 knots killed us. In these winds we managed to get ahead upwind on boats slower then us that we had to correct over at the finish but downwind those same boats made up the time.
As to a windsurf rig leading edge slots, well they increase light but also increase drag.
Aircraft using them use them primarily for takeoff and landing , at these time engine power is on full and angle of attack is also high, very ineffecient but it allows aircraft apparent speed to slow while still flying, wheels hit the groudn power off viola short takeoof and landings. Planes that have these leading edge lift devices deployed continually suffer from lack of speed while cruising , due to drag from these appendages.
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Old 12th October 2008, 04:44 PM   #17
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No arguing that drag will increase with slots, which is why I've only really imagined them in the downwind dash scenario. There we are operating at as high as angle of attack as we can , proabaly well past most efficent. I wonder whether by running deeper, if a little slower, with slots (ie closer to the spin equipped boats) it would be possible to make more VMG. For general aviation take off/ landing, drag is probably pretty irrelevent to the designer. However if the goal is different then the placement and sizing of the slots would differ to meet the changed target. The only windtunnel work I know of in this area has been done for paragliders, and is shown on
http://www.skywalk.info/Content/103/?mnid=328
According to independant tests (in the table 2/3 the way down) they got virtually 20% decrease in stall speed (ie high angle of attack) for 2% increase in drag at minimum angle of attack (equivalent to upwind). Certainly those things sell well enough. I've spoken to owners and they say the only disadvantage is a narrow 'poor performance window' at medium angle of attack - might be a problem on a sail for beam reaching, but not up/downwind. Just makes me wonder - but we don't see so much experimentation nowdays with rigs, that all seems to be on the kites.

Regards the 380 the big plus for me would be the width. Once used to wider tails I found going back on a raceboard takes quite a readjustment of style.
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Old 13th October 2008, 10:01 AM   #18
Tiesda You
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To owners of the Phantom Race 380 serial numbers #040 and above,

Our manufacturer has advised us that a number of boards have been produced without the specified layer of PVC reinforcement around the critical area in the daggerboard box. This may result in cracks and water intake. We feel that it is the correct action for the World’s number one Windsurfing board brand to make a full recall on this model, to be replaced with the new 2009 version of the Phantom Race 380, scheduled for release this coming spring.

On a positive note, this new 2009 Phantom Race 380 shape has been tested to be quite a bit faster both upwind and on the reach compared to current, World Champion, Phantom 380 of 2007/2008. Racers will get even better kit, and Starboard will thus bring into the market a board that otherwise would not have seen the race scene before 2010.

We apologize for all the incident and we hope that by offering to replace the board with the new and faster model in spring, we would continue to keep all Starboard raceboarders happy and ahead of the game.

For those of you who are not currently on the Starboard Phantom Race 380 and considering to purchase one, production has been discontinued of the current model and the new 2009 model is available from Spring onwards.

Tiesda, on behalf of team Starboard
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Old 14th October 2008, 12:19 AM   #19
andretsin
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Hi, I recived my board last week and I think it has this problem. The serial number is ST8PR38008070166. I'm from Spain. What shall i do to change it? I understood i will have to wait until spring 2009, isn't it? Can I use my board until then? I don't have any tiquet from the shop where i bought it. Shall i get one?
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Old 14th October 2008, 03:29 PM   #20
Tiesda You
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Hi Andretsin,

Please do get a receipt for your board from the shop. It could be important once the new boards have arrived in Spain. You can use your board until then.

Tiesda
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