Old 22nd July 2008, 08:14 AM   #21
dkeith
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Well just when I thought this discussion was not going to happen it suddenly comes alive! Thanks everyone for your feedback.

To Roger in particular since you have used all of the boards that I am talking about. Everyone else is welcome to provide feedback as well.

It seems that my choice now is FT138, FU122, IS122 roughly in order of price. Roger can you please describe the perfect 2 sail combo in terms of sizes for each of these boards and the relative differences i.e planing threshold, max speed, liveliness etc. Considering that I have the 12-6 SUP for non-planing conditions which of these boards will fill that 10 - 20 knot hole. Again keep in mind that when it is a solid 15 I am on my Trance but truth be told it is rarely a solid 15 in the summer here and is usually quite gusty, which is why I refer to the 10-20 knot region. In terms of sailing ability I would rate myself high advanced. Again money is afactor and I can get a FT138 plus two sails for the same price as an IS122 whcih is why I want to get a better idea as to relative performance levels i.e. twice as fast?

Thanks

Duncan
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Old 22nd July 2008, 02:28 PM   #22
Farlo
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Hi Duncan, I would go for the FU122 with 8~8.5 and 6.5~7 sqm sails. You will have close to IS122 performance with more fun for a reasonable price. At your weight, it will be more comfortable than the FT138 in choppy water or when wind picks up.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 03:46 AM   #23
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Spend a bit of time sourcing second hand gear and due to the fashion factor you can enjoy yourself for a third of the cost. And less environmental impact. If you want to follow fashion great, enjoy unwrapping it all, but don't complain about the cost.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 09:30 AM   #24
Roger
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Hi Duncan,
OK, here's the "big" issue here.
The 2005/2006 F-Type 138's are 88 cm wide.
The 2004 Free Formula 138 was 96 cm wide.
These are all very early planing designs.
They will work really well in sub planing to about 14 knots.
You can sail them in alot more wind, but the chop vs the width does not make for a real good combination.
The Futura 122 (71.5 cm wide) and the Isonic 122 (75.0 cm wide) are not going to be much fun and give much planing performance in the < 12 knots range.
How much sailing do you do in the 8-12 knot range?
Below 8 knots is the domain of your 12'6" SUP, right?
So, if you choose the F-Type (I'd look for an F-Type 148 or 2004 Free Formula 138 (wish I'd kept the one I had) due to the extra width) you get early planing performance down below 10 knots.
If you get the Isonic or Futura 122 you have a pretty big hole between 8 knots and about 12 knots.
For early planing performance in light winds (8-12 knots) requires either width; great skills; or both.
I sailed the 2008 Futura 155 (85.0 cm wide) this afternoon with the 2008 7.5 m2 Sailworks Retro and Lessacher Design 36 cm Duo Weed in about 10 knots and was planing most of the time.
Maybe the Futura 155 would be a better choice to fill the gap between 8-10 knots and a solid 15 knots when you can use your Trance.
As to specifics, for the F-Type 138 (88 cm) you could get going very early with a 9.5 m2 rig. The board works pretty well all the way down to about 6.5 m2 but that's a little beyond it's best range. 7.5-9.5 m2 is a more realistic range for this board.
The Isonic 122 works great with an 8.5m2. I was often the only one out planing last year in Bonaire on the Isonic 122 and an 8.5 Sailworks NX4 slm. I could get going in about 11-12 knots.
The 2008 IS 122 may be better but I do not have one to sail this year.
The Futura 122 probably works the best with 6.5-8.5 m2 rigs but again, like the Isonic 122, it's not going to be much fun (unless you have superb pumping skills and super light in weight) in < 12 knots.
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 23rd July 2008 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 04:10 PM   #25
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Unregistered Post 23, I hear ya, but I was just interested in getting an opinion.
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Old 24th July 2008, 08:07 AM   #26
dkeith
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Post 25 I agree with you on Post 23. Not sure what the point of that post was except some sort of therapy session for all of us to witness. The point was valid that there is sometimes a lot of hype around new product and that there is good value to be found in buying used gear however there are better ways to express that thought in a public forum. That being said sometimes there are profound differences between new and old gear. Having sailed 27 years myself and having purchased a lot of gear I have experienced this first hand. I think of when I bought the first Go board on spec before it was even fully available. That board was a major change in the industry and for a few hundred dollars less I could have bought a used F2 Xantos Not! My current quiver includes boards that I have bought new and old, depending on where the technology curve was in that discipline at that time.

My current post reflects this issue. For many years wide and short was the vogue but I have been noticing that freeride boards seem to bet getting a little narrower and longer again. I suspect this has to do with adavancements in other areas such as rocker etc. The three boards that I am considering are the FT138, FU 122 and the IS 122 represent possibly a three year difference which is why I am seeking Roger's sage advice on the differences between all them so I can decide where I want to spend my money. He has actually ridden all of them! If post 23 has experience in all these boards then I welcome their advice as well, if not they can hijack another discussion.

To Roger your advice has been great as always. I have a few further questions though. The FT138 seems like it could still get me planing pretty early as I am 150 lbs and have no problems sailing a large rig. My concern with the FT138 is when it is up and planing what is the top end like compared to the other boards. A lot faster, somewhat slower etc. If you could quantify this in anyway it would be helpful. How does this compare to the FU 155? If you were planing in 10 knots on a 7.5 how could I be planing with a 9.0 or 9.5 in 8 knots? Should I be considering this or a FU144? The sail range I was thinking was 9.8 and 8.0 or a 9.0 and a 7.5. Both of these would allow me to jump to my 6.0 after I am overpowered because the larger sails will be freerace sails with lots of range. The IS seems like it probably planes the earliest and is undoubtedly the fastest but like post 23 tried to express in their failed post can you please try and quantify how much of a differencce there actually is between new and old.

Thanks

Duncan
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Old 24th July 2008, 10:18 AM   #27
Roger
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Hi Duncan,
I knew you were going to "pin me down" on this.
I try to stay objective, and I think board speed is a little more in the
"subjective" realm.
I will try to answer your questions a clearly as I can without speculating.
The Isonic 122 (once there's enough wind to get it planing) is for sure the fastest board on your short list, and at 150 lbs. with good skills and a 9.0 m2 rig you might get it planing at around 10 knots.
The 8.5 m2 NXslm I mentioned is the largest sail I ever put on the 2007 Isonic 122, and I was planing in around 11-12 knots and I'm about 20 lbs. heavier.
The F-Type 138 I had I didn't sail that much because the F-Type 148 was a bit earlier planing. That's why I suggested the FT 148 if you can find one.
The Futura 122/144/155 won't be quite as fast as similar Isonics, but they are alot easier to sail, and very nearly as quick because they are so easy to sail.
I made the issue about the width because to me anyway, getting on to a plane in marginal conditions is made a whole lot easier if you have a wider board.
If you want a speed rating here I'll try.
In < 12 knots, regardless of sail size the F-Type will plane the earliest, making it the fastest in 10 knots unless you can really light up the Is 122.
The wider Is 122 would be the next earliest
The Futura 122 probably won't be much fun in < 12.
Once the wind goes over 12 knots, the speed ratings would be Isonic 122 significantly faster than the F-Type 138, and a little faster than the Futura 122.
At 16-18 knots, the F-Type won't be much fun as it's getting a little too wide for the chop.
The Futura 122 would be best in these windspeeds. Maybe not faster than a well sailed Is 122, but more comfortable for sure.
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 24th July 2008 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 24th July 2008, 08:54 PM   #28
Mike T
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Hi Duncan
I see you have a 12-6 SUP board what size sail do you use with that in sup planing winds? I Sup paddle on a 12-6 board when the wind is below 5 knts and then when the wind picks up I put a 7.o wave sail or a 6.6 twin cam on the longboardand freestyle, practice sail transitions and just cruis with no footstraps. When the wind hits 15knts I switch to a 9'6" custom carbon slalom board with the same sails. It's not a modern wide board but it's extreamly fast in the 15 to 25knt range. So with a standup board you have the light wind covered from 5 to 15knts. You can have alot of fun and keep the balance and transitoins skills tuned up in light winds and then focus on gear for 15 plus knots. Just my two cents Good luck and Warm winds. Mike
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Old 26th July 2008, 07:50 AM   #29
dkeith
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Mike I presently use a 6.0 on my SUP when I am flatwater sailing and in the one or two times I have tried it in waves I have used a 5.2 or 4.7. I find the board glides so easily that it does not need a large sail. That combined with the fact that it does not really plane makes me question the use of larger sail. That being said I presently jump from my 6.0 wave sail to a 9.0 freerace sail in my quiver and the 9.0 on the SUP seems all wrong. Although I could ride my SUP all the way to 15 knots and probably more there is way too much rocker to give this board the speed I am looking for. Instead this board covers the < 8 - 10 knot range and I enjoy it very much. Kudos to Starboard on another excellent product.

To Roger thanks for your patience. Your last post makes me think that maybe I should be considering between an IS122 and a FU144 or FU155 your thoughts please
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Old 26th July 2008, 08:15 AM   #30
Roger
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Hi Duncan,
If what your really want is a board that's good in 10-15 knots, then yes, the Is 122;
Futura 144/155 make sense.
If you want a board for < 10 knots, then look at the wider FT 138/148.
The F-Types were fairly fast in the light winds because they light up early and the width helps carry them through lulls.
The narrower the board, the more the lulls are likely to affect it.
Once you get to 12 knots then of course the IS 122 is going to be the fastest.
How much faster....... maybe 2-3 knots on the top end vs the Futura 122, maybe
4-6 knots faster than the F-Types, but not at the lower end of the wind spectrum.
It's a tough decision I know, and I almost don't want to make such subjective comments because your sails/skills/conditions could easily "skew" what I suggest either for better or for worse.
Hope this helps,
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