Go Back   Starboard Forums > Windsurfing School

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21st August 2008, 12:06 AM   #1
Joe
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 64
Default FF158 Replacement

Hi Roger
Hope things are well for you.

I need some more of your infallible wisdom again!
I currently have: serenity, futura 122 and an 04 FF158; and nx3 10.4, 8.5 & 6.5 retro, and a 5.2 ezzy wave.90kgs fresh water great lakes and smaller lakes sailing.

I like my quiver on all fronts.
My only issue is my ff158 and pumping. I think it is a great board and love sailing it 8-15 knots with the 10.4 and 8.5 but find I always have to pump. Last week I was out 5 days with other sailors (only brought my 8.5) and found that I always have to pump onto a plane when other sailors do not. This gets very tiring after every jibe and tack especially when sailing in gusty winds. I can pump and was probably on too small a sail some of the time. But, I find that the ff158 needs to be pumped hard to plane when others just hook in and ease onto a plane. The ff planes early only when you really pump it, otherwise I would say that other sailors (who were lighter than me) planed earlier on less wide boards. One guy was on a techno 148l with (i think) a +/-8.0 sail and could plane as early but with no pumping. Anyway, to my question: What board could replace my ff158 (keeping existing sails) and plane nearly as early without pumping as much all the time. Formula? Apollo? or isonic 133/144, big futura?
(because I have a serenity I am not looking for the ultimate in early planing).

Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Joe

Last edited by Joe; 21st August 2008 at 12:10 AM.
Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 04:34 AM   #2
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,109
Default

Hi Joe,
I'd vote for the Futura 155 as the easiest to get on plane and the best replacement for your FF 158.
I'm not sure why you are having to pump so much.
Maybe we need to discuss your technique a little or something.
One or 2 pumps to "launch" the board were all I remember having to do.
Are you only pumping with your rig, or do you do some fin pumping also.
I found fin pumping to be more effecitve than rig pumping on that type
of board.
What fin are you using?
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 21st August 2008 at 10:16 PM.
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 07:15 AM   #3
Joe
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 64
Default

Thanks Roger,
I have a drake 70cm with the 158. Normally a couple of pumps works but last week I was using the 8.5 which was probably a little to small.

What I do notice is that other sailors don't pump at all - just hook in and ease onto a plane whereas with the 158 I always have to pump. It almost seems that you must use a larger sail with 158 to get her going early.

I do fin pump when I am moving and I am actually get to be a decent 'pumper' now.

Joe
Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 10:34 PM   #4
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,109
Default

Hi Joe,
After thining about this quite a bit, I think you are correct that the 8.5 m2 is a little small for good marginal conditions planing on the FF-158.
I also think your 70 cm fin may be a little large to get going really easily.
I need to make sure we are both talking about the same board here.
Here's the specs. I see for the 2004 Free Formula 158:
158 liters volume
231 cm length
100 cm width
73.1 cm OFO width
8.7 Kg. (Wood) weight
9.5 Kg. DRAM
Deep Tuttle fin box
Drake Race 640 OEM fin
Is this your board?
How much do you weigh?
Overall, I think you might be stepping back just a tad too far with your back foot before you get planing and as a result you are popping the nose up slightly.
Just a guess here!
Maybe not, can't really tell unless I could ride your board and rig and our weights are about the same.
If you have the option, I'd try a 66-68 cm fin and a 9.0-9.5 m2 rig.
I think that would really give you the optimum early planing.
Also, how much "under downhauled" are you running your NX3's?
You can get quite a bit more "grunt" from the SW race sails if you run
them a little "fat".
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 08:15 AM   #5
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,109
Default

Hi Joe,
Just a little follow up here.
I had the opportunity to test a 2008 7.5 m2 prototype Severne NCS (no cam) sail today and I wanted to see how different it was from the new 2008 7.5 Retro.
Both sails have the under cut clew, and both sails have the batten crossing through the boom so they are very similar.
I took the 2008 Futura 155 out with the 7.5 NCS in conditions where no one else was really planing at all (some had even larger sails, but not the wide early planing design on the Futura 155.).
It took a little ooching, and a few pumps here and there, but the Futura 155 was going significantly faster with the 7.5 than anyone else on the water.
It was offshore at the Canadian Hole (NE wind direction) and the wind was around 10-12 knots.
I'm even more sure the Futura 155 will be a good replacement for your FF-158 after today.
Wish I had had my GPS on as I think I was getting well over 20 knots board speed in the gusts.
I was on a 39 cfm Tangent Reaper Weed Fin.
No spin out, very good upwind angles. Lot's of fun!
The NCX 7.5 was really nice, once I figured out that the CE is a good 2-3" farther back than a Retro. I did rerig the NCX with more downhaul and more outhaul but things weren't that powered up, so the batten that passes through the boom was still touching lightly on the boom when the sail loaded up.
Even made a plane in/plane jibe or 2.
So what did I learn that was pertinent to your having to pump alot on the FF-158......well, I paid alot of attention to rear foot placement on the Futura 155 and found that even 1/2" can make a big difference in whether the board simply planes off, or not.
Also, changing your course a few degrees (well, maybe 10 deg.)
off the wind can make all the difference as well.
So, next time you are having trouble getting the FF-158 to plane off,
try moving your foot an inch or 2 forward and back to find the "sweet spot" for your board with your weight. Also try bearing off a little and see if you don't find yourself planing as easily as the other sailors.
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 22nd August 2008 at 08:21 AM.
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 04:41 PM   #6
Joe
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 64
Default

Thanks Roger.
I will try your advice the next time I am out.
I think the 158 (it is the one you spec'd) is an early planer but it does almost require pumping to get going. I thinking if I bear off more that will even help more.
Regards,
Joe
Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 09:32 AM.