Go Back   Starboard Forums > Free Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24th September 2008, 11:04 PM   #21
Vincef
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sailed Carbon Art Slalom, compared with Starboard Isonic. If I look to the design the Carbon Art is a bit traditional design, starboard the new 'trend'.

The Carbon Art has more lenght, and is REALLY THICK. Combined with sharp rail, and no tailkick. What is happening with this board when you send it downwind in (1m??) chop, good power in sail, it breaks automatic. In my believing the board hit that brake a bit to early for most conditions. The thick tail combined with no tailkick give less freedom to kick the board over the edge. Personally I don't like this, I try to release the board between the front/rear strap, but flat water/ backside of waves just are BREAKING. When I go about 32kn on the CA it is over, I am pushing really a lot with my backfoot, while I know on another board I can take that load away... Also the masttrack is a bit much forward... Giving some problems if you like Deeep-downwind.

Yes I also managed speeds above 35kn, but *board is already at the next mark. (CA has slower acceleration)

The Starboard Isonic... Speeds are about the same, BUT this board has just a little mode to get to that edge, and those very fast sailors can FLY. Yes this is POWER SAILING, but the CA will never get to this point. Only thing that would make me sail CA is the precision... Saw a Isonic 2009 with on right side a concave, and left it was flat...

I haven't sailed the newest *board, but when I win a lottery I will definitly buy a few *boards to replace my current boards. The Isonic revolution is really good.

However I believe some Amateur sailors could really like the Carbon Art... most like a board with a BIG limiter in looseness and that is the CA. People that sail completly neutral... WON't be surprised.

@geo, tail(width) is not the limiter, broader tails accelerate faster. When possible to release the board further back, topspeed is higher than you can imagen. The new wingers will give that topspeed.
Hi there,

What CA did you try ? What Isonic to compare with ? What sail and what fin ? As I've tried a lot both, i didn't feel what you felt at at all. Both are excellent boards. CA boards are bit smaller on the tail (a way much narrower) and the more it's choppy, the better they are.
Vincef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2008, 12:08 AM   #22
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

Geo,

I don't think you understand. I don't like to talk over internet, but to all readers I would like to comment:

Everybody has his own sailingskills /style, it is hard to define your own style. A sailor that is going about 28kn average will feel different things than someone that is on 34kn or even 40kn. Lucky most fast sailors know what to ride, amateur sailors are often stuck at a certain level due these quotes (giving them 'other' idea's)...

===each new release was "clearly faster" than the previous... so, since old Sonic100 are still capable of close to 40 knots, I expect '09 slalom boards (in the same size class) to make 45+.===
>>>Boards are not only about topspeed dude... Nobody wins PWA slalom on a speedboard.

===Tail thickness means nothing when you're flying, as the volume is completely out of the water===
>>>Board rolls over, backfoot pressure is a lot bigger, both giving less feeling/control. I also feel that the board simply doesnt respond fast.<<<

===because under my back foot is the ONLY place where the board touches water===
>>> You are releasing way to far back, it should be between front/rear strap at normal speed. Only release this far back if you know what your doing, I can imagen why you are using smaller fins. Releasing under your backfoot, I wouldn't recommend this on a no-tailkick board...<<<

===I suspect those same large fins should act as limiters at higher speeds===
>>>Fins are not ment as a limiter, they are for to give enough lift, to keep course/ acceleration. But also taillift is a thing fins deliver. Lenght has not much to do with topspeed (when you are sailing good fins...)<<<

===One more thing: now you have the burden to explain me how those wingers, placed up front, just behind the front straps, may have any influence on top speed...===
>>>Topspeed, is that factor only important??? I believe wingers give fast acceleration. In windlulls you will get a better glide when giving mastfoot-pressure (release-point goes forward), this will result in a wider glide surface giving stability/surface. In windgusts your sail/fin deliver more lift, taking your releasepoint back. When placing wingers exactly on the right release-spot (gusts/lulls) you simply get faster acceleration, combined with higher chance of planning thru lulls.Topspeed improved??? Most current SB isonics will still reach 40kn... no doubt<<<



Hangloose,

-mysterious speeder*
*I don't own any SB at this moment, I am a national sponsord sailor, I am into competition, did ++42kn on gps/ and 40kn++/500m. Maybe you guys can google my name, haha. Or do you need more hints?
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2008, 12:44 AM   #23
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincef View Post
Hi there,

What CA did you try ? What Isonic to compare with ? What sail and what fin ? As I've tried a lot both, i didn't feel what you felt at at all. Both are excellent boards. CA boards are bit smaller on the tail (a way much narrower) and the more it's choppy, the better they are.
TRUE, I like the CA slalomboards. But only overpowered, at least 1m waves/chop, gusts/no lulls. For our national competition I would never entree with CA slalom because they are not made for our 'main' conditions. Just 1 out of 5 events is on salt water (read big chop)...

compared CA SL62 with 'old' Is105, I got now 2 CA speedboards which are excellent. Especially the CA SP44 is such a nice design. My ID is easy click below...

Hangloose,

-mysterious speeder*
*just found myself to quick on google.com, click for the link
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2008, 01:14 AM   #24
geo
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Geo,

I don't think you understand. I don't like to talk over internet, but to all readers I would like to comment:

Everybody has his own sailingskills /style, it is hard to define your own style. A sailor that is going about 28kn average will feel different things than someone that is on 34kn or even 40kn. Lucky most fast sailors know what to ride, amateur sailors are often stuck at a certain level due these quotes (giving them 'other' idea's)...

===each new release was "clearly faster" than the previous... so, since old Sonic100 are still capable of close to 40 knots, I expect '09 slalom boards (in the same size class) to make 45+.===
>>>Boards are not only about topspeed dude... Nobody wins PWA slalom on a speedboard.

===Tail thickness means nothing when you're flying, as the volume is completely out of the water===
>>>Board rolls over, backfoot pressure is a lot bigger, both giving less feeling/control. I also feel that the board simply doesnt respond fast.<<<

===because under my back foot is the ONLY place where the board touches water===
>>> You are releasing way to far back, it should be between front/rear strap at normal speed. Only release this far back if you know what your doing, I can imagen why you are using smaller fins. Releasing under your backfoot, I wouldn't recommend this on a no-tailkick board...<<<

===I suspect those same large fins should act as limiters at higher speeds===
>>>Fins are not ment as a limiter, they are for to give enough lift, to keep course/ acceleration. But also taillift is a thing fins deliver. Lenght has not much to do with topspeed (when you are sailing good fins...)<<<

===One more thing: now you have the burden to explain me how those wingers, placed up front, just behind the front straps, may have any influence on top speed...===
>>>Topspeed, is that factor only important??? I believe wingers give fast acceleration. In windlulls you will get a better glide when giving mastfoot-pressure (release-point goes forward), this will result in a wider glide surface giving stability/surface. In windgusts your sail/fin deliver more lift, taking your releasepoint back. When placing wingers exactly on the right release-spot (gusts/lulls) you simply get faster acceleration, combined with higher chance of planning thru lulls.Topspeed improved??? Most current SB isonics will still reach 40kn... no doubt<<<



Hangloose,

-mysterious speeder*
*I don't own any SB at this moment, I am a national sponsord sailor, I am into competition, did ++42kn on gps/ and 40kn++/500m. Maybe you guys can google my name, haha. Or do you need more hints?
Hi mysterious,
don't think I am going to give up logic or physics just because you say you are so fast...
By the way, considering my age and the time I was able to spend sailing, I am perfectly happy with my skills, even though I know I will never hold against any PWA competitor. As for national level racers, well, we might see...
Now, about those quotes. Maybe I am not understanding, but nevertheless it seems I should better explain you more clearly what I said.
1) I know it's not all about top speed, nevertheless usually manufacturers refer to "more speed" at each new release... OK, make it more simple for you: I was trying to be hironic. Got it, now?
2) Apart from the fact that my thick tail CA is BY FAR the best controllable, more responsive and less affected by backfoot pressure board I ever tested or rode in my pathetic 30 years windsurfing career, please explain me how physically volume may affect any board behaviour once you are planing at speed. If the concept is clear, it should be easy to do so clearly.
3) Again when at speed my CA touches water only in the tail. Funny:
http://gallery.star-board.com/share_...isc1a_1336.jpg
http://gallery.star-board.com/share_...isc3a_3142.jpg
http://gallery.star-board.com/share_...isc3a_3243.jpg
tell them they are wrong...
4) Thanks for the hints! Probably my fluid dynamics professor did not know as much as you... he used to consider drag and lift both as a function of speed and size, the lesser the speed the more you need size. Go figure. Anyhow, funny how speedsters tend to use small fins, too.
5) Oh well... I was referring to post #17. Go read the last sentence. I thought you wrote that. Anyhow. I do agree with what you say, only it was possible to have that with wingers, or with a different outline taper. Again. My point is simply this. Do you want me to write it once again?
By the way: did you ever thought that by lowering the nose in lulls one also engages the central part of the rockerline, which is not flat but curved? Ever heard of the relationship between foil curvature, fluid change of direction and lift? Do you really think that a maybe 2 cms. wider outline where the wingers are is so important compared to the rockerline effects?

Well you might be surprised but I don't care who you are. Maybe you are the fast sailor you say, maybe not. Anyhow let me give you a suggestion. Don't think that being a good or fast sailor (if so) necessarily means one knows or understands how a board works, or anything at all, not even what he himself writes. An easy enough example? Just carefully read again the first line in point #5 here above.

Last edited by geo; 25th September 2008 at 12:25 PM.
geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2008, 02:04 PM   #25
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Wink

Geo,

Please I am not giving comment on your sailing style... But not everybody is the same, I really believe CA is a holy grail for you. Since I go speedsailing if the wind is above 18kn, I never got any circumstances that are really fun for a CA SL62. But I do have another sailingstyle (I think a bit more regular), and do feel most things are just otherwise than you explain (in my case). But still it could work for you!

BTW if you are focussing in improving your topspeed, I would really recommand that CA Speed, they are really 'easy' to start on (I think you can sail it right away). I am 80kg, and the CA SP50 + a NP RSR 6.7 is taking of @ 12kn of wind. This is really the best topspeed improvement advice I can give you. Also the SB speedboards loook very fast...

hangloose,

Erik
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2008, 02:27 PM   #26
Vincef
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Default

Hi Erik,

You should give another try to CA in slalom, especially VS the IS 105 which is out of the game now. You can go with very big fins on CA. No problem. For the 62, I mainly use it with 38 and 40 fins (C3 Venom) for 6.7 and 7.6. I use 32-36 on the 58 and 30-34 on the 55. I'm 85 kg. The more push you can have down the tail, the better you can handle some "backhand" when you are overpowered. Just a question of balance and leverage.

The CA beefy tail from 06 and 07 could be impressive at first glance and you don't really feel any problem while sailing. As you said, the board is even better when you need more control (Chop+gust).

The CA tail is thinner on 08 model and even thinner on 09 model. The rocker is lower and overall boards are faster and even easier to rid trough rough conditions. The philosophy is still the same, you don't want to thhink about your board if you you want to go gast.

As I said, both Isonic and CA are excellent boards. If you sail A LOT, you will find a subtle difference as the Sonic is a bit more free and the Ca is a bit more steady. You can change this just with settings.
Vincef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2008, 09:49 PM   #27
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just read Phil Mcgain doesn't use them in PWA sylt?

I am sure vince that CA is just fine, but for the edge high competion level/ PWA... I think it is just to safe. But still better than to dangerous, haha
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2008, 11:09 PM   #28
nonopr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Posts: 573
Default

Phil, Cant use Carbon Art because they are not approved by the PWA 2008 Rules
nonopr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2008, 12:56 PM   #29
Vincef
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I just read Phil Mcgain doesn't use them in PWA sylt?

I am sure vince that CA is just fine, but for the edge high competion level/ PWA... I think it is just to safe. But still better than to dangerous, haha

CA boards are not PWA registred. As being the designer of CA, I couldn't imagine Mcgain riding anything else than CA boards.

Phil tried almost everything registred and available on the market and kept was the best for him besides CA, i.e Tabou boards.

Then, you could say that Tabou is second best choice after CA.

Josh Angulo did the same and finally choose Tabou boards.

It's interesting to see these great riders (Mcgain, Angulo or Dunkerbeck) choose their boards without being sponsored.

Last edited by Vincef; 27th September 2008 at 01:00 PM.
Vincef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2008, 03:17 PM   #30
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

from what I know he just hasn't had access to every brand so,maybe,Tabou was a safe choice because Angulo's given a huge amount of feedback and tuning info.
just my 2 cents
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 03:40 AM.