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Old 23rd September 2008, 05:41 PM   #31
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By the way, Frans, Skip, Steve, and especially Svein - great posts!!!!


and Matthew too- whoops!! :-)
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Old 28th September 2008, 10:05 AM   #32
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As to the idea that FW doesn't work with smaller sails-it certainly does. Lightweights go on them all the time, and I --as a heavyweight-- have too when the wind is strong enough.

If we want to see the best windsurf *racers* in the world in the Olympics, it has to be FW, if we want to continue with the current amateurs, often with little skills, then stick with longboards. That's just a fact: most Olympic sailers (with a few exceptions) are barely club level racers, because top sailers either aren't interested in long boards or don't fit the Kate Moss body type needed for RSUX or IMCO air rowing.

I mean c'mon, wouldn't we all like to see AA, BD, Naish, KP, etc etc in the Olympics ?

As it is, we have refugees from other sports representing, because so few accomplished *windsurfers* / athletes are interested, so athletes that have failed in their original sport of choice have switched to something easy. Which is not to denigrate anyone's hard work, but it's a fact that I'd rather see our sport represented by our best.

There is one other possibility: switch to freestyle.

There's no real reason racing needs to be the Olympic representative form of windsurfing, and freestyle is successful in any wind strength, more or less. But I strongly doubt that Olympic sailing would allow so radical an idea.

Which leaves FW, or the ghetto of 1980s technology.
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Old 28th September 2008, 12:50 PM   #33
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As to the idea that FW doesn't work with smaller sails-it certainly does. Lightweights go on them all the time, and I --as a heavyweight-- have too when the wind is strong enough.

If we want to see the best windsurf *racers* in the world in the Olympics, it has to be FW, if we want to continue with the current amateurs, often with little skills, then stick with longboards. That's just a fact: most Olympic sailers (with a few exceptions) are barely club level racers, because top sailers either aren't interested in long boards or don't fit the Kate Moss body type needed for RSUX or IMCO air rowing.
Not sure I'd agree with that; I am fairly sure that Tom Ashley would be very competitive in the shortboards as well; that guy would be a champ in any sailing sport.

At the next rung down; certainly locally and regionally in Asia AFAIK the longboarders are either govt athletes (national team, youth team) or beginners who cannot afford shortboard stuff.

I am led to believe this is not the case in Australia; again it certainly seems that longboards are the domain of the blue rinse brigade in NZ also AFAIK plus the elite olympians (if we count the RSX as a longboard). Uk different again.

Locally, we have 2 great formula sailors; one is tall and skinny, the other more stocky so could not switch to RSX; the tall skinny guy ended up 20th I think in the Olympics...and he came something like mid fleet in the formula worlds and is up near the top in slalom etc here; so that kind of shows that the mid fleet level of longboards is probably about on par with mid fleet in the formula.

Unless there is a board that suits bigger guys, you'll never see AA or KP et al racing Olympics. Plus the sponsorship issue of OD kind of kills things a bit.

Fair to say for every longboard and formula racer, there are another 10 sailors who have never even considered once racing a board. Anyone dispute that?
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Old 28th September 2008, 02:54 PM   #34
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"If we want to see the best windsurf *racers* in the world in the Olympics, it has to be FW, if we want to continue with the current amateurs, often with little skills, then stick with longboards. That's just a fact: most Olympic sailers (with a few exceptions) are barely club level racers, because top sailers either aren't interested in long boards or don't fit the Kate Moss body type needed for RSUX or IMCO air rowing."

THAT'S JUST NOTHING BUT COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

STEVE ALLEN DID THE RSX WORLDS AND NEVER FINISHED A SINGLE RACE BETTER THAN TENTH. HE WAS ABOUT 34TH OVERALL.

IF THE RSX SAILORS WERE CRAP, STEVE WOULD HAVE DONE WELL. HE DID NOT.

THE CURRENT WORLD WOMEN'S FW CHAMP COULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE OLYMPIC TEAM OR WIN A WORLDS IN AN OLYMPIC CLASS; SHE WAS ON TOP IN FW SHORTLY AFTER SHE GOT BEATEN IN THE OLYMPIC CLASS.

WHAT CLASS IS AMATEUR? WHERE I AM, FOR ONE, THE TOP FW SAILORS ALL HAVE FULL-TIME JOBS; THE TOP RSX SAILORS ARE ALL FULL-TIME SAILORS FOR 18 MONTHS AT LEAST BEFORE EACH TRIALS.


I mean c'mon, wouldn't we all like to see AA, BD, Naish, KP, etc etc in the Olympics ?

I SPOKE TO NAISH MYSELF ABOUT THE OLYMPICS; HE HAD HUGE RESPECT FOR THE OLYMPIANS.

A TWO-TIME OVERALL PWA WORLD CHAMP, WINNER OF THE ALOHA CLASSIC, WAS 'ROUND AT MY PLACE LAST NIGHT.....DID FOUR OLYMPICS, NO MEDAL.

GREAT SAILOR, PWA WORLD CHAMP TWICE AND NEVER AN OLYMPIC WORLD CHAMP DESPITE 12 YEARS OF TRYING.....WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO FORMULA.


Which leaves FW, or the ghetto of 1980s technology.

THE GREAT
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Old 28th September 2008, 04:43 PM   #35
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if you put Nick Dempsey into any uk fleet, he would be at the top of it or thereabouts. i cant think of a single regular formula sailor who would even get close to nick.going back to imco, the top imco sailors were all pretty good sailors and could hold their own in other fleets. Going back even further pretty much all of the greats of windsurfing honed their skills on longboards....... Naish, dunkerbeck bringdal baker etc etc.............
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Old 28th September 2008, 05:57 PM   #36
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My thoughts after seeing the FOD in action and speaking to several sailors using the equipment at 2 events this year:

Starboard provided 10 complete kits for some Olympic class sailors to try. Most found the equipment better than the current RSX class but still not yet completely acceptable. The 11.0 mens rig seems a bit much for one sail to cover the range of 6-30 knots. Ironically most racing in the FOD fleet registered another smaller sail and used it during the windy races. To say that the 11.0 planes any sooner than a formula board with a light-wind fin and 11.8 rig is absurd!

Yes this new class may make the sport more accessible and more opportunities to train with existing formula fleets but still the equipment has some fine tuning before it can be called an Olympic standard! The choice for 2012 is a tough one indeed. Abandon the RSX class in favor of a purely planning class and risk not having racing at light wind venues or stick with the current class and have a class that is so far out of reach from the standards of windsurfing that it only attracts Olympic campaigners. My thoughts are that we need to grow the sport not continue to chop it up into fringe classes that national authorities can barely justify supporting. Windsurfing would be better off with the FOD in the Olympic. Not perfect, but lets hope it can turn out better than what we were promised in 2004 at the last selection trials.
Steve
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Old 29th September 2008, 10:59 AM   #37
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Hi Steeve,

The racers as you said who use smaller sails is not beacause they can not handle the sail, but (they are racers) they just want to be faster compare to Formula Windsurfing open equipment in High Wind. With the wide trim range this sail plane really earlier because softer and more easy to pump compare to an Formula Windsurfing 11m. Due to only one sail the average weight will be less than the curent Formula Windsurfing open because they can not use sails like 12,5m.
In really ligth wind we can have other race course format to be more attractive race than the only propulsion pomping and rowing for the media.

All the best
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Old 29th September 2008, 03:06 PM   #38
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The racers as you said who use smaller sails is not beacause they can not handle the sail, but (they are racers) they just want to be faster compare to Formula Windsurfing open equipment in High Wind.
So- given the choice sailors still would pick formula equipment over the FOD 11.0!!!
Isnt this what happened with RSX?? No one wanted to sail it because compared to formula, it wasnt any fun. You've got to make the sail better for planning conditions without giving up the low-end.

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With the wide trim range this sail plane really earlier because softer and more easy to pump compare to an Formula Windsurfing 11m.
Of course the softer FOD 11.0 is easier to pump!
Comparing it to a formula 11.0 is comparing apples to oranges.
A formula 11.0 is meant for 12-18k

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Due to only one sail the average weight will be less than the curent Formula Windsurfing open because they can not use sails like 12,5m.
I agree and the argument of getting the likes of Albeau, Buzianis, Pritchard, Dunkerbeck and the other PWA guys is slim to none!


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In really ligth wind we can have other race course format to be more attractive race than the only propulsion pomping and rowing for the media.
What formats are you suggesting will work with a formula board and 11.0 in light winds?? - slalom, match racing, team racing???
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Old 29th September 2008, 08:15 PM   #39
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I think it's irrelevant whether one class is "faster" than the other since everyone is on same equipment. I think it's much more important that a result is obtained even if the wind is bad - it would be a disaster if no medals were awarded. The rsx (or another longboard/hybrid) is the best compromise to make sure racing takes place.
I believe that if olympic windsurfing were gone, the status of windsurfing would diminish.
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Old 29th September 2008, 08:30 PM   #40
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Hi gyus,

Is it so much important to be on the Olympics?
I don't understand what's behind this effort of making FOD or FW an Olympic equipment. Don't came with "this is what sailors want" because I haven't read any sailor saying that's what they want, seems loke the prefer FW over FOD.
I also think that if the FOD would be chosen for the OG or not and became a class even without Olympic class status, it will kill the Formula Experience class, but seems like FE is already dead anyway so maybe it woud not make any difference.
Thanks, good sailing.
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