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Old 1st January 2009, 03:49 AM   #31
carlosgp5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
And probably the best advice is to sail someting else !!! (And enjoy it !)
Afterall 20 knots is arguably best wind possible for WS; if you are on right gear !
Our unregistered friend should have in mind, that some people (like me), live in a place with below 15 knots 80% of the time. So whats your advice, sail a boat? Im not keen and dont have the cash. I also dont have the cash to buy smaller boards. I am also not keen to travel 200km south every weekend to saill the waves where kauli lives.
Please mate, think about it. Aren't I doing alright wanting to know all about everything about my only gear, and being abble to be out every weekend with my formula gear?
For sure, when a friend that has a 30 foot invites me, I go to travel with him no matter about the wind from 2 to 50 k. But the topic is how to sail formula in high winds, and I actually learned a lot of how to do it in this forum.
Thanks to everybody contributing, happy new years!!!!
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Old 1st January 2009, 03:49 AM   #32
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Talking You must be joking !!!

If formula is so good (in 20 knots) two questions

a) How come allround boards (Futuras etc) out sell them at least 20 to 1(probably a lot more)

b) Why aren`t there any out when it`s windy ! They just stay on beach when its choppy or windy. The real boards are out then.

All venues I go to Formulas are out on two occasions. Firstly when its not worth going out. Secondly when they are racing.(Normally same as first)

Happy New Year
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Old 1st January 2009, 08:16 PM   #33
Aco
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Hi Unregistered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
you must be joking !
No, we are not at all:
we are having a serious discussion with arguments to each claim, including the ones that follow in this post.

If you read the following please keep in mind that the main purpose of the post that follows is not "just to contrast to your claims" but rather to:
(+) answer your questions,
(+) explain why I believe you are wrong with some statements and
(+) attempt to develop a more constructive attitude in the discussions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If formula is so good (in 20 knots) two questions
a) How come allround boards (Futuras etc) out sell them at least 20 to 1(probably a lot more)
To me this is similar to asking
"If Formula 1 is so good two questions
a) How come allround cars (Vans etc) out sell them at least 200.000 to 1 (probably a lot more)"


The answer is obvious:
because the allround cars (and boards) are
(+) more practical
(+) less emanding to use and (last but not least)
(+) cheaper.

BUT if someone is looking for THE BEST UNCOMPROMISED VMG PERFORMANCE, Formula is the way to go, which is why the "VMG sailors" (me included) prefer it.

Now of course "VMG sailors" represent a minority of windsurfers, but in this discussion I do not remember anybody saying that Formula is "for everybody" or "widespread", but rather that it is ultimate performance and tons of fun for dedicated sailors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
b) Why aren`t there any out when it`s windy !
The answer is simple:
SOME ARE,
MOST ARE NOT,
because most windsurfers prefer BAFFING over VMG sailing - and nothing is wrong with that when everybody is having fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
They just stay on beach when its choppy or windy.
Correction:
They just FLY when its choppy or windy when strapped to the feet of skilled sailors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
The real boards are out then.
Correction:
"The real Formulas are out then under the feet of VMG Sailors,
the real other boards are under the feet of Bump-n-Jump Sailors,
the real Keel-Boats, Dinghies, Cats, Skiffs, Moths etc. are under the feet of other sailors."


The best part of it is that EVERYBODY IS HAVING FUN, each one on its own way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
All venues I go to Formulas are out on two occasions. Firstly when its not worth going out.
If your gear does not work in some conditions it does not mean that "it is not worth going out" for everybody.

The conditions you describe are the most fun for Formula sailors, flying around while the "real boards" slog or stay on the beach with their sailors working out their suntan and complaining how it is never windy.

In conclusion it looks to me that you highly dislike Formula and have an extremely, undescrivably, overwhelmingly tough time understanding and accepting the sincere enjoyment of Formula sailors and the higher VMG performance of their gear, which brings me to the following dilemma:

Why do you read and partecipate in discussions about Formulas?
I simply skip threads about gear I am not interested in - perhaps you could do the same?


Happy New Year and fair winds to all fellow sailors.
Wth Kind Regards,
Aco

Last edited by Aco; 1st January 2009 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 03:55 AM   #34
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Cool

I might not have been correct in my criticism of Formula but it prompted a fantastic response ! Its good ! Well done.

But in 20kts Formula DOES NOT have best VMG. Slalom will have.

and

by which time they are neither the most fun or fastest. They are a product of rules just like the F1 you mention.

Nice reply though.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 05:24 AM   #35
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Unhappy

Takes a Formula sailor to equate what he does to Formula 1 and what rest of us do to driving vans !

Think thats what probably inspires unregistered comments in first place.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 06:29 AM   #36
Aco
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Hi Unregistered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
But in 20kts Formula DOES NOT have best VMG. Slalom will have. by which time they are neither the most fun or fastest.
Maybe I did not explain enough into detail:
by VMG I intended "Velocity Made Good" over a broad range of conditions and points of sail.

I sail Formula and Slalom and in 20 kts on a beam reach you are right:
Slalom is a bit faster and much less demanding than Formula, BUT the beam reach is only 1 point of sail (!).

When Upwind/Downwind legs and wind shifts (speed and direction) come into play (and they always do if you are not BAFFING all the time in the same place) Slalom is really badly left behind by Formula, especially upwind - and this holds also @20+ knots.

With Kind Regards,
Aco

Last edited by Aco; 2nd January 2009 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 06:39 AM   #37
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Unhappy

Yep I know what VMG means and yep I know what you meant. ( I read your post !)

But in 20 knots Fiormula is not fastest ! Like I said Slalom is !

Gusting 13 to 25 yep I might agree but steady 20 knots Isonics (or similar) would be quicker on probably every point of sail. (Formula would probably sail deeper downwind but I suspect even downwind Isonic would develop faster VMG through better boardspeed.)

Poster asked about 20 knots +.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 06:44 AM   #38
Aco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Takes a Formula sailor to equate what he does to Formula 1 and what rest of us do to driving vans!
The intention of my comparison was not to
"raise Formulas by comparing them to Formula 1"
and
"humiliate other boards by comparing them to VANS"
but rather to exaggerate the differences in order to make my point as clear as possible.

If I offended anyone with that comparison I apologze sincerely - this was never even close to my intentions.

Best Wishes,
Aco
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Old 2nd January 2009, 10:08 AM   #39
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I might be stating the obvious here, but obviously you know that people don't sail formula on a 90 degree reach in 20+ knots?

They just sail way upwind or way downwind.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 02:52 PM   #40
PG
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I may be a crappy slalom board sailor, but I do have a pretty race freeslalom board (Tiga Swift 74) and a decent fin (SR6b 46 cm). Even when it is blowing 20 knots I have no chance whatsoever against Formula boards going upwind, they go almost as fast and their angle is simply unbeatable.

It would of course be interesting to try with a Slalom setup that is so overrigged that it is virtually impossible to sail on a reach :-)
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