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Old 30th December 2008, 03:34 AM   #11
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Cool

Sorry Per,mis read your weight!

My Evo still works in 25 knots with a 5 though. (well a 5.4 anyway !) I reckon people always overestimate wind . 25 knots steady is blowing !!!
I`ve witnessed 40knots completely flattening everyone at our venue.Some still insisted they`d sailed (which they hadn`t;they`d survived) in 50 knots. (which it wasn`t)

Good point about sponsored sailors aswell.

Look on here.There`s literally hundreds.Stopped counting at 400 !!!
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Old 30th December 2008, 03:57 AM   #12
Per
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Of course it depends a lot of which kind of board you choose. An EVO 92 has a tail width very close to that of my S-type 126 (only 1 cm difference) whereas a more traditional and narrower design will be very small at 92 litres.
I guess it depends a lot of the "quality" of the wind too. Do we talk average or steady? In my spot we don't have such a thing as 25 knots steady - it's inland. It means that where I launch maybe there's gusting 10 to 15 knots, further out it may be 20 - 25, falling to 15 rising to 28.. Quite shitty actually. On an open coast I guess you're right I could probably get a quite small board going with a small sail in 25 knots - if it's steady. In reality it means that where I surf now, if the average wind is 25 knots it could be anything from 18 to 32 knots so I would rig big (and hang on) to avoid swimming a lot through the lulls. Quite a bad but necessary habit. I once tried a 87 litre board with a 4.7 wave sail in around 25 - 28 knots. I spend about 5% planing on the thing, no where near fun.. It was a complete sinker to me.

Last edited by Per; 30th December 2008 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 30th December 2008, 04:08 AM   #13
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And yes you're quite right about people exaggerating about the wind. I do a lot of sail boat sailing in the Baltic sea and I often hear people talking about the stormy conditions they were out in (storm is 50 knots steady) when reality was 25 to 30 knots of wind. I once tried a steady 52 knots storm gusting 70 to 80 (!!!! official report not my exaggerations) in a 28 foot sailboat and it was complete way out survival for a three man crew. Actually I think very few recreational windsurfers are doing anything but surviving in 35 - 40 knots of wind (40 knots is a hell lot more than 30)..
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Old 30th December 2008, 06:11 PM   #14
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I tend to agree with Per. Helsinki is for sure at the coast, and winds can be relativly stable, but the windsurfing is very different from "sailing off the California coast". It is mostly small chop, and thus you see a fair share of Formula, Slalom and fast freeride boards. Quite a number of freestyle boards, and the waveboards come out to play when it is more than 22 knots (but it usually isn't :-( ).

At one of my home spots (Lauttasaari, http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=60.14...,0.054073&z=14) I measure the wind (SW) on a rock at the beach, and by experience I feel that the gusts on the rock are about equal to the average wind some 30 meters out.

For me, at 100-105 kg naked:
- If the wind is 13 knots I will take a 9.0 (at 75 kg 7.0 is about equivalent)
- If the wind is 20 knots I will take a 7.0 (at 75 kg = 5.7)
- If the wind is 24 knots I will take a 6.2 (at 75 kg = 4.7)
- If the wind is 28 knots I will take a 5.3 (at 75 kg = 4.2)
- If the wind is 32 knots I will take a 4.7 (at 75 kg = 4.0)
- If the wind is 38 knots I will take a 4.2 (at 75 kg = 3.7 or smaller)
- If the wind is more than 46 knots it is more or less survival.

By the way, in the the gulf of Finland area we have quite a number of sensors to choose from, many with interesting offsets due to shelter (wind at sea same as top gusts) or height (reduce up to 8 knots).
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Old 30th December 2008, 07:59 PM   #15
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There are many issues that make us overestimate the wind we are sailing in.
First and most obvious is that many (if not most) stations measure windspeed at some height. (10m?) There is always loads more wind at 10m than at sea level.
Other problem is ground effect . Standing on a rock will not give accurate windspeed.Wind will bounce up; go around and always effect accuracy.
Our local Coast Guard station is worse than useless whenever wind has any easterly in it. (The station stands atop a 70ft east facing cliff)

We can sail in 40 knot winds (recorded by CG) in easterlies ! (If we can cope with sea state) Because they aren`t 40 knot winds !!!

I`m 103k. In 20 knots I`d use under a 6 metre on 105 litres.(Goya FXR) 20 knots is top of a F5 !!! Think there is loads of BS about sail sizes and windstrength. Not sailors I`ve met need or use bigger than I do. My biggest is a 7 which gets me going in 13 knots.
I could hang onto 7 in upto I`d guess 25mph but wouldn`t. I`d rig smaller ASAP.
We always look at holding onto big sails as long as poss. We should come at it other way.When can I get my smaller sails going !!!
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Old 30th December 2008, 09:16 PM   #16
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I once decided not to have bigger than a 7.5 and my S-type 115. I lost 60% of my time on the water from doing this. I always prefare to go as small as possible, but in 13 knots average I'd be on 10.3 or maybe 8.5 sails.... Maybe it's because I got bad habits from using too big sails most of the time, but as I mentioned earlier the quality of the wind matters a lot too.
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Old 31st December 2008, 12:15 PM   #17
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OK, but the rock (well, biggest boulder) in Lauttasaari where I make my wind speed measurements is just 0.50 m over the water surface (like standing on a floating dock). Meaning the measurements are taken at just above 2 m. And it is just 7 m upwind of where we beach/water start for the launch. In that sense it is about as accurate as hand measurements gets.

The only problem really is that there are trees close by (but not behind!) and this reduces the wind speed at the measurement point, and close to the beach. When I measure 24 knots (and then pick a 6.2) I record "sustained gusts". The gusts further out from the beach where we sail are a lot stronger, and the beach gusts ought to be close to the actual average wind.

But translating measurements to actual wind is always an estimate :-)
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Old 31st December 2008, 09:52 PM   #18
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Going back to sponsorship question
Wonder what Starboard`s budget is for sponsorship.
Must be half a million pounds or so ?
Must be 500 boards "given" away each year looking at numbers on here sponsored.
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Old 5th January 2009, 06:12 AM   #19
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I'm wondering if you guys are simply arguing at cross-purposes.
In different disciplines of our sport we sail in a different way.
Freestylers for example use the smallest sails being on early-planing, easily-driven boards. And they rig their sails 'baggy' with slackened downhaul or less outhaul for increased power per sail size. Their concern is acceleration, not top speed.
Whereas slalom and Formula racers hang on to the biggest sails they have, downhauled fully for top end speed.
In 20knots I'm on a 5.2m sail, hopefully on a wave board. 25knots of wind and it's the 4.7m sail.
But I might also sail my iSonic with a 7.8m sail in similar winds.

Sail sizes used will depend on your weight too of course, plus the water conditions and board chosen.
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Old 6th January 2009, 06:14 AM   #20
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Default sail calculator

if you use the "sail calculator" on the web from James Douglass
then 25 knots for 100 kg person ideally uses a sail of 5.3
5.0, 5.3 or 6.0
significant ????
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