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Old 1st February 2009, 03:31 PM   #1
Carve
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Default Building quiver of Starboards

Hi,

Ive decided to go 100% Starboard and need some help to build the perfect quiver for my sailing and the conditions I usually sail in.
My weight is 70-73kg. I am a decent new scholl freestyler (vucan, spock, flaka), a good b&j sailor (loves to sail with speed, jump high, loop) and an ok wavesailor who loves to ride but usually get onshore bad waves.
My sailrange is 5.6, 5.0, 4.5, 4.0 and 3.7.
I guess I need three Starboards. One for flat water freestyle, one for more b&j, looping, and some lightwind riding and one for perfect controll in strong wind and with good riding and jumping with sails from 5.0/4.5 to 3.7.
Its obvious that the boards needs to overlap some but this is also the beauty of having a quiver.

(If the wind is to light for 5.6 and freestyle I am out on a big board and a small sail doing some technuiqe training.)

Last edited by Carve; 1st February 2009 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 12:11 AM   #2
davide
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I would take:

Kode 68
Kode 80 or 86
Flare 98

or

Kode 74
Kode 86
Flare 98 (or 106)

Last edited by davide; 3rd February 2009 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 05:32 AM   #3
Ola_H
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Hi Carve. I started writing on an answer two times, but had to think a bit. So, here goes a third try...

The "problem" with a three board quiver is that you will expect each board to be a _perfect_ fit - why else have as much as three boards. And since the range of a modern board is huge is should be easy, right? Well, in practice, regardless of how many boards you get, there will always be compromises in some area.

In your case, the freestyle board seems like an easy choice: Flare 98. I seriously doubt the bigger one would do anything better with 5.6 as the biggest sail. The smaller (88) might be if you do a lot of high wind freestyle in choppy waters too, but from what you write you don't. So Flare 98 it is.

For the smaller boards, there are EVOs and Kodes (and Evil Twins, but I don't think thos are the best option for you). Both E and K are all round and do most things well, but EVOs are more wave riding oriented. They for sure make riding waves in the exact conditions you describe easier, but you will loose some of that crisp B&J feel. So this is something you value you will be better off with Kodes. You will have to drive the board more through the turn (ie it requires more technique to rip in bad waves) but they are still by all means excellent wave boards - you just don't get as much "help" to get vertical and to keep speed. This goes for both the small and the big board.

So, if we assume I'm right and you are more after the Kode feel, then we just have to figure out the sizing. And here comes the tricky part. The Kode 74 would be excellent to have since it will be the most all round of tem al at your weight. But it might feel a tad hectic in the really windy stuff. It will be manageable in powered up 3.7 (at least it is for me and I'm 70kg) but not as relaxed as a smaller board. The plus side of the K74 is that it will work all the way up to 5.6 if it has too. So you can without worrying get the Kode 86 as the big board.

The Kode 86 with it's higher volume and more width and tail width will be nicer for high wind freestyle. It will plane a bit earlier and sail more relaxed with the 5.6 than the Kode 80. And it will be less demanding when it comes to keeping speed in slow waves in wave riding. It will on the other hand reach its limit in powered up wave riding and on a faster wave than the 80, but with the 74 in the quiver this will not be an issue.

If you instead go for the Kode 68 you will have than faultless high wind control boards you talk about. It will handle 5.0 well, but due to the shear lack of size, it will require more drive to ride waves well. If you like super loose boards or ride powered up, then it will be no worries, but there wil be times when it just feels a bit to small. Not so much because it will sink and plane late, rather because it will not keep the speed in the wave riding unless driven well by sail/wave/sailor.

So, the K68 coupled with the K86 will give you EXCELLENT range and top performance both with small and big sails, but leave to little overlap in the middle. Some people would for sure be happy with that, but my personal experience is that it pays off more to have lots of mid range overlap because this is where you spend most time and being able to choose between two boards for similar conditions is the BEST way to tune the on water feel.

So, with the K68 in the quiver, I would recommend the K80 as the big board. You'll loose a bit of effectiveness with underpowered 5.0 but some of it can be brought back with a bigger fin. And you'll gain performance on a wave as soon as you're either powered up or the wave is getting better/bigger/faster. With the K68+K80 you can choose a big board for when you want power and speed and bigger margins in the wave riding and vice versa with 4.5-5.0 (and even underpowered 4.0). And often when the wind changes, you'll be able to change board instead of re rigging to stay planing or to stay controlled. Very nice, if you ask me.

I personally had both the K86 and K80 this season, and when I went wave sailing I never even brought the 86 since the 80 in good enough also in light wind/slow waves/onshore for me. So I would for sure go the K68+80 route, particularly with the F98 in the quiver.

But if you do like som more board under your feet and want to effortlessly fly in marginal 5.6 too, the K74+86 will be excellent.

So as you see. Even with three boards there are compromises to be made. Regardless of the sizes you can choose from this will always be the case. But on the other hand, any combo will work really well. It's important to remember we are discussing nuances here. But again.....there are some things to think about.

Please tell me if you have more questions (like if you're in fact also interested in EVOs).
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Old 3rd February 2009, 07:35 AM   #4
davide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola_H View Post
... I started writing on an answer two times, but had to think a bit. So, here goes a third try...
Yep, exactly (with a bit more verbosity!):

Kode 68
Kode 80 or 86
Flare 98
or
Kode 74
Kode 86
Flare 98

It all depends on how much 3.7 you see ... if it is a few days/year go 74/86/98. You could also add a cheap sub-70 board for the nuclear days, and a sub-70 is relatively easy to find for less then $500/600

Last edited by davide; 3rd February 2009 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 4th February 2009, 01:12 AM   #5
Carve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola_H View Post
But on the other hand, any combo will work really well. It's important to remember we are discussing nuances here. But again.....there are some things to think about.

Please tell me if you have more questions (like if you're in fact also interested in EVOs).
Thanks Ola and davide!

You are very much in line with my thinking before I put up my questions. The Flare 98 is an easy one. My freestyling is almost eclusive in perfekt flatt water spots with wind from underpowered 5.6 to well powered 4.5. Early plaining with an as small sail as possible is important.

If I get you right Ola, Evos will be interesting if I want to do more frontside riding in bad waves. Sure I want to go frontside, but when the waves are bad at my most regular spot its more about big chop/sweel going backside and doing backsides aireals and shove-its. In addition to this, jumping is often the highest priority in those conditions. In better waves I understand the Kodes will do the jobb also for frontside riding.

As for the chooseing Kodes 68/80 or 74/86 I guess I cant go wrong.
How much more of a b&j/freestyle waveish board is the 86 copared to the 80?
Im very tempted to go for the 68/80 set-up. Most of all to get a perfect board in the 68 in real powered up conditions. I also see the use of an 86 in lighter conditions, but I agree that there will be to little overlap.

The last two season I have been sailing a RRD FSW 80 (56cm wide) as my middle board. Do you know how this board is compared to Kodes 80 and 86?

Again thanks for taking the time. As you wrote Ola, this is a discussion about nuances, but in my opinion this is when its getting most interesting.

Last edited by Carve; 4th February 2009 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 4th February 2009, 02:19 AM   #6
davide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carve View Post
Thanks Ola and davide!

Im very tempted to go for the 68/80 set-up. Most of all to get a perfect board in the 68 in real powered up conditions. I also see the use of an 86 in lighter conditions, but I agree that there will be to little overlap.

The last two season I have been sailing a RRD FSW 80 (56cm wide) as my middle board.

Again thanks for taking the time
just to compare with my conditions: My main sailing venue (Crissy Field) has tides (3-4 knots) and BIG wind gradients (typical 15 knots inside and 20/25 outside .. and dropping proportionally, i.e. 10 knots on the inside: you are dead).

Because of that my 74 is becoming my high-high-wind board, and the RRD FSW 85 (2008) is the (beloved) all around 5.8-4.7 board ... if the winds here were steady 68+80 might be better, but as things are there is really no other solution (unless one wants to be swimming periodically)

... so, for you ... if your conditions are steadier 68+80 is going to be great although I am not so sure ... 74 + 85 might still be the best all around combo for a 70Kg (and note that the Kode 74 is a bit smaller then my Acid 74) ...

Last edited by davide; 4th February 2009 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 4th February 2009, 02:39 PM   #7
Ola_H
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Davide has some good advice. I seem to recall he thought the Acid 74 was a bit big at first, but maybe he got used to it. A comment on that would maybe help: Do you now feel the A74 is easier in high wind than you did when it was new, Davide?

Freestyle: I'm not a freestyler myself, but it seems the good ones whip out their moves on pretty much any board in high wind. That said, the K86 will for sure be easier in freestyle, particularly in lighter winds.

Riding: I agree, for what you describe the Kodes seems better.

RRD fsw 80: I would say it comes in somewhere i between the K80 and 86, it wil feel a bit bigger than the K80 for sure. So your view of the "fit" of the RRD is probably in fact a great indication of which size Kode you should go for.

Also: the more "straight line backside B&J" stye sailing you do (relative front side wave riding) the less problems I think you will have with the 74 in high wind. It is for its size an extremely controllable board, just like its predecessor. They have for many years been tested as the most controllable in their class.
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Old 4th February 2009, 10:09 PM   #8
davide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola_H View Post
I seem to recall he thought the Acid 74 was a bit big at first, but maybe he got used to it. A comment on that would maybe help: Do you now feel the A74 is easier in high wind than you did when it was new, Davide?
No, not really, in Bay Area B&J conditions when I am powered up with my 4.2 Superfreak UL the board still feels big, especially upwind ... go above that (quite a lot of wind, for a Superfreak, to my 3.7) and I am uncomfortable, or to put it better: the Chango (or something similar) works much better. The Acid seems to have a hard time going over chop, it is as if the front of the board were too big and bulky, it kind of sticks too much as opposed to the Chango 65 that feels very very free in chop. Again this is very high-frequency chop, short trains of steep "waves" that I am sure is not what the Acid was designed for.

But ... I am kind of stuck with it: I could sell the Acid 74 to get a 68 (and hoping that it is a bit more floaty then the Chango), but then I will have too big a gap with the RRD 85 (58 wide) ... too much expense for an unbalanced quiver, for unsure gains!!!!

Last edited by davide; 4th February 2009 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 5th February 2009, 12:57 AM   #9
Carve
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Thanks again!

My FSW80 is often a perfect next biggest board to a 100litres freestyle. With a standard Nick Baker 25cm its perfect with 5.6 and no problem slogging in lighter winds. Its also good with a 4.5 but big on a powered 4.0. Underpowered 4.0 its good.
I guess I have to decide between the Kode 86 and 80 and then take a 74 if I take the 86 and 68 if I go 80.
I seldom get the chance to go, but going to wavespots I guess I could go 80/68. These spots are world class sideshore with sometimes very strong winds, but my local spot is more b&j onshore, but still good winds.
For more b&j maybee 86/74 is the right combination. On the other hand I still got the Flare 98 and that could open up for the 80/68 option.

One of my friends has the Kode 86. I will get an oportuinity to try it out.

Btw, my smallest board right now is an RRD Wavetwin 74.

Last edited by Carve; 5th February 2009 at 01:03 AM.
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