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Old 26th January 2009, 07:45 PM   #1
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hallo people,
I used sail and compete in FW since 2002.Owned 158,159,161,162.This season changed usual sail brand (still using a top one) and had less training on fw/162.Plus haven't bought one of that $$ Kashy's.
In the end I wasn't happy of my stuff and sold the 162.Now I'm complainting to have sold my trusy and beloved 161...
Just found a good shape 160.It's still able to win so guess that buying it should be a good idea.Isn't it?
As I've never owned it can you tell me what's the difference with the 161?
I own the "classic" R 19-17-13 and couple of Birdi's.Do you think they're going to work on 160?Just to know,what was the fin used lately by Wilhem in Miami?
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Old 27th January 2009, 02:29 AM   #2
sergio k
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hallo people,
I used sail and compete in FW since 2002.Owned 158,159,161,162.This season changed usual sail brand (still using a top one) and had less training on fw/162.Plus haven't bought one of that $$ Kashy's.
In the end I wasn't happy of my stuff and sold the 162.Now I'm complainting to have sold my trusy and beloved 161...
Just found a good shape 160.It's still able to win so guess that buying it should be a good idea.Isn't it?
As I've never owned it can you tell me what's the difference with the 161?
I own the "classic" R 19-17-13 and couple of Birdi's.Do you think they're going to work on 160?Just to know,what was the fin used lately by Wilhem in Miami?
from what I know Kashy, check www.formulawindsurfing.org /miamiwindsurfing.com
etc. for more details, I think, what Kashy fins will give you is a better overall
range, if $$ is a real issue you can buy a used Kashy fins or go for Ifju or Finworks, all very popular in Miami and used with success
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Old 27th January 2009, 03:16 PM   #3
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I have both boards 160 & 162,
the ideal fin for the SB 160 is the DB R13 soft rake 8 & 6 ,
and if your weight is under 80 kg. a soft (-) fin is working good as well untill 15 knots .
In strong winds over 20 knots a medium R13 70 rake 4-6 is perfect with a 10 m sail.
The SB160 is still competitive compare to the new boards in medium to high winds and very easy to use .

www.formula-windsurfing-association.gr:)
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Old 27th January 2009, 04:20 PM   #4
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what's the difference between 160 and 161?
When one is better then other?
Weight 80 kg....
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:02 AM   #5
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Not sure if you can say one is "better" than the other; they are just very different boards.

The 160, is smaller in the tail compared to the 161 (77.9cm vs 80.7cm at 1ft off). The nose is much thicker and more blunt/rounded whereas on the 161 they thinned the nose a lot more and made the corners a lot more pronounced. I haven't measured this but from sailing them both I think the 160 has slightly more scoop rocker and sits a little higher in the water.

What that all means is...

In super strong winds, a lot more people prefer the 161 going upwind, because a wider tail means you have more leverage and can push harder against the fin - keeping you in control and also allows you to run a bigger fin with better control (maybe the difference between hanging on to a 70cm or changing down to a 68cm fin). Downwind however, a smaller tail is arguably better at it gives you more control and loads the fin less - having less load on the fin makes downwind sailing more comfortable (just like having a fin with a lot of twist does that same thing).

It was widely considered that the 160 was a better choice overall in med/high winds in choppy conditions because of the tail width and also with a little more scoop in the nose, the 160 used to catch the chop a little less than the 161 downwind. In lightwinds, I personally believe the 161 is a far better choice; a wider tail means you can power the fin more, use a bigger fin, and use a bigger sail. Which is why the 162 (and all other brands' boards for that matter) have got wider tails again this year.

80kg is bang on 'middle weight', so one board wouldn't be better than the other based on the weight. I would just ask myself, do I want to have better lightwind abilities at the expense of slight speed differences downwind in +25 knots? -- then get the 161. Or do you want a better 'all round' board that is arguably not as quick in certain niche condtions like lightwinds and then 'upwind' in strongwinds -- then get the 160.

To be honest. I believe there is the same potential with both of them are if you have the right settings and tuning.
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Old 29th January 2009, 04:07 PM   #6
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thanks Sean,
I totally agree with your statements.

Do you think that a "good" fin could help the 160 to reach the same performance of the 161 in light air?If I think at Wilhem Miami race I'd say yes!

If you have to compare your Vapor board with both 161 and 160 what would you say?Is it a board "only for Kashy's"?

I'm going to compete mostly in light wind this coming season and that's why I was thinking at the F2 Z... how about it?
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Old 3rd February 2009, 11:00 AM   #7
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I couldn't really say 'any' board is a board 'only' for Kashy's; because I don't have Kashy fins!

I can say that the Vapor, 160 and 161 (as well as the F2 Z) will all benefit from one of these newer, super-soft and more torsionally-stiff fins, whether they be a Kashy, VMG Blade, Deb R20 or Hurricane or whatever ... the trick is in finding the right fin to trim the board how you like it, taking in mind your body size and technique and the conditions you are sailing in.

I would argue that with the best fin for all boards being used, the 161 would still have a tiny advantage over the 160 in lightwinds and then the Vapor board would have a little more advantage again over both. This is all to do with the tail width. The Vapor is the widest, then the 161, then 160 and that extra width allows you to put more leverage against the fin and create more lift in lighter winds. The actual performance differences would be small, but it’s enough. That shouldn’t be your only concern when deciding on a board however, because a lot of boards require a really specific fin and others don’t. For example, I believe the F162 is one of the best boards this season, but if you don’t have a fin that takes advantage of its shape then the performance appears to be compromised; whereas the 160 seems to go quite well no matter what fin you put in it. The Vapor works with any fin as well, and to a lesser extent, the 161. Certainly, the 160 is still capable of winning races in lightwinds against the 161/Vapor, so Wilhelm is probably right in saying the 160 can still do well against the 161 in light air, but if you wanted to compare actual performance ‘potential', you have to look at the shapes of the boards and I think the tail width alone is enough to say the 161 could be better, without getting more into details about the subtle differences of the bottom shapes.

Now, the F2-Z is a whole new story. I haven't got the specs but from memory I think the OFO tail-width is about 8cm wider than any other board on the planet! Dennis Littel was using an 83cm cutdown Kashy in Europe last season on this board. With that width and the ability to harness such massive fins, there's really no board (in my opinion) that comes close to the F2's performance in lightwinds. The only way to beat one around the course is that they're not as fast/comfortable downwind from what I've seen and they become more difficult to manage as the wind gets up.

I believe the Starboards/Vapor to be better ‘all-round’ boards than the F2’s, which are far superior in their niche winds (<15 knots).

That being said, just buy whichever one you can get the best price on and don’t read too much in to the ‘tiny’ differences between the boards. In the past 3 seasons of FW the boards (and sails for that matter) have become so user-friendly with similar performance that it really doesn’t matter what gear you are riding; all that’s left is your tuning and your tactics. Take that one-design! :-P
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Old 3rd February 2009, 01:40 PM   #8
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what about the exocet black machine formula. how does it compared to the *boards?
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Old 3rd February 2009, 07:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterwednesday View Post
what about the exocet black machine formula. how does it compared to the *boards?
I think this question you should do to Gonzalo at the
http://www.exocet-original.com/forum/default.asp

He is a specialist on Exo board, so he can tell you the difference 100 %.
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Old 4th February 2009, 01:42 AM   #10
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He looked real good on exo formula, on first day of practice in Miami, he was outplaining/
outpointing in light winds everyone, and there was a mix of F2/F2-Z/ML/SB/Gaastra

Quote:
Originally Posted by gre-969 View Post
I think this question you should do to Gonzalo at the
http://www.exocet-original.com/forum/default.asp

He is a specialist on Exo board, so he can tell you the difference 100 %.
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