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Old 8th April 2009, 04:35 AM   #21
michelb
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+1 nice words Peter.
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remi View Post
Hi Unregistered,

I think you completelly miss the point, first I am nor represeted Deboichet, but the most important is not here.

We receave many complain already about racers who think that start to be a money game. So the class is not any more accessible. And all the board manufacture are agree on this. If people don't beleave in the class, people will leave it and board manufacture will sell less.

With the crisis today even in Formula 1 and Moto Gp they reduce a lot on tire and many other things. And I think our sport need the same. May be production fin who are deliver with the board will be a good idea, this fin of course will come from Fins compagny at a resonable price to make all racers happy. In any case the best racer will stay the best one but will beleive in the class again and don't leave.

Hope you understand my point now.

All the best
I see your point, but you forget to mention, windsurfing always has been a money game for those who compete- even in one design and developmental one design classes! Someone will always have a better sail or better fin but the great thing about the formula class is you can still get out there and kick their ass on your own custom fin or standard debocheit fin with good tactics and fitness.
Secondly, fin makers still cant produce a decent mass produced fin compared to the custom fins. Until they do, why should we settle for something inferior to the fins we are using now.
The formula class is an open development class which supports and encourages the development of fw boards, fins, sails, mast and booms. There's a reason we all arnt racing on a Formula 158 and aluminum booms. The sport- especially our discipline of formula has rapidly developed over the past few years.
We race in this class because we like to push the envelope of design not be limited by it
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remi View Post
Hi Unregistered,

I think you completelly miss the point, first I am nor represeted Deboichet, but the most important is not here.

We receave many complain already about racers who think that start to be a money game. So the class is not any more accessible. And all the board manufacture are agree on this. If people don't beleave in the class, people will leave it and board manufacture will sell less.

With the crisis today even in Formula 1 and Moto Gp they reduce a lot on tire and many other things. And I think our sport need the same. May be production fin who are deliver with the board will be a good idea, this fin of course will come from Fins compagny at a resonable price to make all racers happy. In any case the best racer will stay the best one but will beleive in the class again and don't leave.

Hope you understand my point now.

All the best
If this is the case, why doesnt starboard promote the Formula One design concept more??
It's the perfect opportunity to race alongside the formula class and limit the cost of entry AND not impose limitations to the formula class.
It seems like you had a good thing going and people were encouraged but you got dissed as the Olympic choice for 2012 and lost all your steam.
Promoting the FOD class would essentially make it a stronger competitor for the next Olympic cycle if the class develops and proves as popular as starboard thinks it will.
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Old 9th April 2009, 11:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remi View Post
Hi Unregistered,

May be production fin who are deliver with the board will be a good idea, this fin of course will come from Fins compagny at a resonable price to make all racers happy.
All the best
Im not sure you will make any formula windsurfer happy delivering them a drake 70 cm fin or even any fin form debocheit for that matter!
If people dont want to spend the money for a decent fin, then fine- let them race in the formula class with what ever fin they want but dont force them to downgrade to make the class more accessible!
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Old 10th April 2009, 12:33 AM   #25
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What do you Think about this fin for a F161:

Select R03 DC Wide Medium

Michel
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Old 10th April 2009, 10:07 AM   #26
Remi
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Hi Unregistered,

If we folow your idea so what you will say if a board is at 3500€ just beacause is better?

Formula is a production class if you compare to F1 and Moto Gp who are full prototype and they put a lot of restriction to make everybodies happy. And at the end the racers are still there. Righ now is really not the case with a lot of complain about fins.

All the best
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Old 10th April 2009, 10:57 AM   #27
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Remi

You miss the point- maybe because of your English or your affiliation with Debo and Starboard.
The custom board builders like Richard Green among many others, were put out of the formula class business due to the exact situation you are voting for. Make everything the same - and we will all be robots before long. Then there will be less and less development with no competition among small businesses.
Why are you in the business Remi?
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Old 10th April 2009, 11:27 AM   #28
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yes, there are lot's of contradictions in formula. the idea of everyone competing on similar equipment was the original idea which got hi jacked by the production companies to force people to use their gear even when a "hand made custom" would fit all the criteria including weight (my Richard Greene formula board was awesome in it's day....). And today certain board manufacturers provide their top team riders with boards that have a very different bottom than what the public can buy..........

The fin thing is interesting........ the high end custom guys definitely produce some fins which can do some amazing things, but some of the other builders fins in the right hands or feet, can do just as well.................

The nice thing to focus on is that formula gear allows extremely high perfomance racing and access to a high level of sailing in an extremely wide range of conditions. And for those that do not want to have the latest kit, gear from one or two years ago can be purchased for an extremely reasonable cost, allowing them entree to true high performance windsurfing in real world conditions, getting them out on the water for much more time than if they bought a 85 liter wave board and 5.0 sail that they would only use a few times a year......$1500 board, $1000 for a rig all carbon used 3 times a month in most places that don't see 20 knots too often = $69 a day. $750 used Formula, 2 used sails $800 one mast $400, $500 used boom that can be used 3 days a week = $17 per day!
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Old 10th April 2009, 06:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remi View Post
Hi Unregistered,

If we folow your idea so what you will say if a board is at 3500€ just beacause is better?

Formula is a production class if you compare to F1 and Moto Gp who are full prototype and they put a lot of restriction to make everybodies happy. And at the end the racers are still there. Righ now is really not the case with a lot of complain about fins.

All the best
Remi,

You are missing the point and useless to compare with F1 and GP where this is high tech and R&D day in and out.

The guys behind the really really expensive fins are probably the ones pushing the techniologie and design as they need an edge on the well established brands (Deboichet, Select and others) to get in the market. So in the end they are helping the class...

And people walking out of the Formula class cause of this, is absolutely rubish, if they need such an expensive fin for their level this is cause they are at the top and top racers already get huge discount on their kit (I do not know ANYONE paying full retail price for the latest gear).

Setting a price tag on fins will only put these guys out of business as this is more a part time/job on the side and not sure you can do that in an open market!!!

Unregistered, this is very low blow to talk about Remi's english level.
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Old 11th April 2009, 02:25 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Remi View Post
Hi Unregistered,
If we folow your idea so what you will say if a board is at 3500€ just beacause is better?
If you make the fastest formula board and demands exceeds supply- Im sure you will find people to buy it for 3500€!

Yes, people will always complain about the expense of the sport, but why do you want to dumb it down to attract more people.

What happened to the FOD class, why arnt you promoting it more as a cheaper alternative to formula that you can race along side the formula class with?
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