Go Back   Starboard Forums > Windsurfing School

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10th April 2009, 11:03 AM   #11
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,112
Default

Hi Youri,
I'll try to address your questios individually by pasting them in here and working on each one.

But because of my weird initial set-up (damn surf shop, just kidding), I would need to go pretty huge ( or so it feels for me ) and buy at least a 8.0. Which means getting a complete new rig: new mast, new boom, new mast extension ( I don't know if a big mast extension can be used just like a short one, seems to me that there could be too much of the extension in the base of the mast, if you see what I mean)

The issue here is not that you cannot "extend" your 460 cm mast!
The isue is that the larger 8.0 NP V8 is designed to rig on a 490 mast, so if order to get anything near the design performance you need to use a 490 cm mast with this sail.
If you use an "extended" 460 IMCS 24-26 mast in a sail designed for a 490 IMCS 28-32 mast, the mast is not going to bend correctly to give the sail the shape it needs for full performance.
First, a 6.9 is not really a "wierd" size. It's essentially a 7.0 m2.
The sailmaker was just trying to be honest as to the true number of square meters in the sail.
Consider it a 7.0 m2.



Now, another question, I found a used V8 in good shape for sale. The V8 being a freerace sail, I know it is going to be fast. But is it not more difficult to maneuver than a more freeride/freemove oriented sail, and would that make jibing more difficult to learn ?
And, getting a larger rig, (8.0-8.5 m2) is probably not going to be so "huge" as you may think.
Yes, a 490 mast and larger boom will weigh more than your current rig components, but the slight increase in weight (unless you go for a higher carbon content mast) will be more than offset by the increased early planing power.
Yes, a little more difficult to uphaul, but once the rig is up and working for you, not alot of difference if you keep it balanced on the mast foot.


And, if a freestyle oriented sail is designed for acceleration, early planing and ease of use, why wouldn't it be a good choice to power my board ( except for the relatively small sail size of course ). Ok, I know you are going to say freestyle sail doesn't come in 8m and more TOW far exceed the lose of ease of use. Let me reword the question then, what type of sail (regardless of the size) do you think is best to progress once you can handle the power, ride in the harness and outerboard strap?
My experience is that "freestyle" sails (very maneuver oriented and the primary focus of the design is easy handling in advanced transition moves (not advanced beginner or intermediate tacking/jibing, etc.)) so they have a limited amount of power and draft.
Free race sails, on the other hand, have lot's of power (but they are not necessarily the "fastest" sails on the water) on the low end, and avery good overall range of use.
You cannot really compare the "early planing" claims for a freestyle sail with the early planing claims for a free race sail.
The free race sail will have significantly more power on the low end of the spectrum.
The V8 8.0 would be a good choice, but an 8.5 V* would be an even better choice.
Same mast, nearly the same boom length, and very similar overall rig weight when compared to the 8.0.


Finally, it seems to me that a 6.9 sail is somewhat of a odd sail of size to own. Looks like a quiver of a 6.0 and a 7.5 would make more sense than a quiver of 5.5, 6.9 and 8.5. Or maybe it's just an impression.
6.0 to 7.5 is an OK quiver spacing, but 5.5-6.0 up to 6.9 is also an acceptable quiver spacing.
As the sail sizes come down, it's better to space your sails somewhat closer together.
I see more issues with having a 6.9 freestyle sail and having an 8.5 m2 free race sail as they are significantly different designs.
The 8.5 V8 will not be "difficult to handle" for normal tacks jibes and things you are learning.
The 8.0/V8 woukld be difficult to handle" if you try to do advanced freestyle moves with it.
We are talking willie skippers, flacas, heli-tacks etc, which are way down the road in your learning curve.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2009, 09:09 AM   #12
Youri
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14
Default

Hi,

thx for all the advice, I tried a 8.0 the other day and it felt aweome, as you said, a freeride sail feels a lot different, it feels a lot lighter once at cruising speed, compared to my freestyle. The bigger mast and boom means it doesn't really fit well in my car, but I'm still considering it.

Only thing I wasn't too much of a fan off was the 4 cambers, who made it a little harder since the sail wasn't rotating by itself.

On another note, the wind picked up so much the other day I couldn't go on the water with my 6.9. I was pissed. So now I guess I will end up getting a 8.0 and a smaller sail.
Youri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2009, 12:03 PM   #13
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,112
Default

Hi Youri,
Hmmmm..... the 8.0 NP V8 has 4 camber inducers?
I would have thought that it would be maybe 3 cams, not 4.
You will need to learn how to rig and tune a cambered sail.
If you had it on the "best" mast (or another mast that's very similar and
compatible with the characteristics the sail needs, the cambers will rotate
very nicely when you have the downhaul in the correct range.
I guess you have a very small car, right?
Have you considered a roof rack for the larger rig?
And.....
Yes, you will need smaller sails as well.
A 5.5-6.0 and another in the 4.5-5.0 m2 range would give you
a sail for just about every wind condition up to 25 knots.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2009, 07:53 PM   #14
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youri View Post
Hi,

I am glad to be a new member of this community.

Here is a bit of history you will need to know to answer my question. I'm 185lbs and I have been windsurfing for 4 years now, the first two year on club gear ( which was very old, long narrow board) and the last 2 years on my own stuff. I own a 2006 Starboard Go 155L FAST, and a 6.9m Neilpryde Expression. I also bought a Poison RX 110L used cause I wanted to try a smaller board for high wind days. My skills are still pretty intermediate, I can get in the footstrap and waterstart if the wind is good, but even though I know the techniques to jibbes, I haven't really completed one yet.

So, what should be my next purchase if I want to improve ? I know I would be able to handle a 130 L, and was looking in that direction ( i.e a Carve 131 ). But maybe sticking to the go and getting a smaller fin to make it easier to jibe ( I have the big straight Drake Racing fin only) would be just what I need to start jibing.

And, I know I should get more sails, what do you recommend, smaller for my 110L or Go to make it easier to jibe and control on those windy day, or bigger for light wind on the Go ? and what size ?

Hi Youri,

You got some excellent info here, I just want to share my opinion with you since I'm the same weight and had similar concerns (got lots of help here).
I sail on freshwater inland lakes, wind 12-25(?) knots, gusty and choppy.

I'll let you know what quiver I ended up with and why - hope that'll help you make a decision:

1. Starboard F-type 148 + 9.8 freerace (Gaastra GTX 3-cam), footstraps all the way out/back (GO 155 + 8.5 in your case I'd say)
2. Other brand ;-) 125l/69cm board, footstraps all the way in/forward for better learning (it's really easy to get into them) + 7.5 freerace and 6.4 freemove (Gastra Remedy)

* I got rid of 111l. older Carve, because it was too narrow and too small for me (I don't really get too much very windy days and my progress was slow). Getting slightly wider and more floaty board was a very good deal for me.
* I got rid of 6.0 3-cam sail because:
- I rarely got days windy enough for this sail
- if the day comes, 3-cams and low foot didn't help with chop, jibes, waterstarts, etc.
So I switched to a more friendly no-cam sail that I can also use on light-wind days to practice helitacs, etc.
* I got rid of 10.0 sail with non-dedicated mast and switched to dedicated Gaastra GTX setup. That was a good move, sail rotates and rigs effortlessly.

Larger sails with cams are great for gusty lakes, but I'd recommend getting them with dedicated masts.
Another thing I learned is not to be afraid of buying and selling gear; I do it every year and if I don't like something I just sell and replace. Often it's less expensive to buy a new sail, but not the latest model, but say, 2007 (often differences are small).
I like to buy rigs new (especially masts), but I have no problem whatsoever with used boards.

Right now I'm only thinking about getting 8.5 for my 125l board, like Roger suggests, seem to be a nice size, the largest that doesn't yet feel like a 10.0.
Would love to try larger no-cam Retros, but they don't demo or sell them where I live.
I'm also thinking about either switching from F-Type to a fully fledged formula or to sell the whole set and have one board only with max. 8.5 sail. (my back is not very happy with the large sail + days when you can get going on 9.8 but can't get going on 7.5-8.5 are rare)

If I were you I'd leave this 6.9 sail and learn how to tune it down, I'd buy 8.5 and I'd get ~120-130l/~70cm wide board for windier days.
If you really have more windy days, when you can't use your 6.9 I'd get something like 5.5, cheap and used (depends on how often you will use it) - but I'm not very familiar with winds and sizes below 6.0 ;-).

Just my 2c

-marek
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2009, 07:52 AM   #15
Youri
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14
Default

Hi,

The sail I tried was a Maui Sails TR 2 I think, but it is hard to confirm since I can't get to the Maui Sails website for some reason. It has 9 battens and four cams, wich are pretty easy to set up since there are zippers that let you access the cams. Like I said earlier, not a fan of the cams, but I understand their advantages.

As for the car, it isn't that small, ( Mazda 6 Sport ( hatchback) ), but the mast, sail and boom go all the way to the front passenger seat. I have a roof racks for it, but for now have only used it for the board. I am not really sure how to secure the sail, boom and mast to the roof, but I'm sure I would figure out a way if I had a decent quiver bag.

Marek: thx for the info, your setup would be perfect if I was staying in this area, but I am moving to Québec city and I have heard it is kind of more windy ( even though the windiest area are too dangerous for me to venture in them yet.) Looks like getting a wide array fo sails might be my best option.
Youri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2009, 08:35 AM   #16
joe_windsurfer
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal (PQ) CANADA
Posts: 211
Default

wow - you got to try a TR 2 ?
did you get to borrow it from a shop or friend ? Montreal ?
as an MS fan {as u already said :-) } wish to try any TR ...
joe_windsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2009, 08:59 AM   #17
Youri
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14
Default

That's right, you are a fan.

A friend of mine wants to sell it, he had to leave for a meeting so he lended it to me for the remainder of the day so I could see if I liked it. It felt really good and really light once on a plane. But the rotation of the sail and waterstarting was a bit trickier, because of the cams.

It was in Barrie, about an hour north of Toronto.
Youri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2009, 05:48 AM   #18
joe_windsurfer
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal (PQ) CANADA
Posts: 211
Default

barrie - that's near my old stompin grounds
used to live in keswick many moons ago
now i dream of w/s in cook's bay or jackson's point

btw my old 3 cam Gaastra rotates better with more downhaul and outhaul
if u ever get 2 try another cammed sail - suggest u try that

Last edited by joe_windsurfer; 30th May 2009 at 05:51 AM.
joe_windsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2009, 08:19 AM   #19
Youri
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14
Default

Joe,

if I'm right, cooks bay shouldn't be too far from Keswick.

Roger,

Another question, what would happen if instead of rigging the TR2 on a 490 mast ( the luff is 496 ) I would rig it on a 460 with 36 cm of extension ? The sail is for sale, but I don't have a 490 mast for it. Would the 460 be a reasonable replacement ?

Thx
Youri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2009, 05:50 PM   #20
joe_windsurfer
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal (PQ) CANADA
Posts: 211
Default

you can ask that one on the MS forum www.mauisails.com/forum
would have thought 36 cm was a lot, but the TR2 12.0 uses 35 cm extension

usually the folks @ MS suggest you go with recommended mast, but you never know - good question to ask - i will post the question for you and you just need to follow the thread

http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewt...d=12154#p12154

sorry - barry spanier, the sail designer says "no, you will NOT like the combination"

Last edited by joe_windsurfer; 6th June 2009 at 07:06 AM.
joe_windsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 06:19 PM.