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Old 6th April 2009, 12:01 PM   #1
MuXx
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Default Volume, sail size, dead wind slogging

Hey All,
I am in the middle of the Canadian Praries and we get some great wind days, but when it shuts down, it shuts down fast. I learned to ride on 180L board and then I started riding a 95L board about four years ago. I have done a lot of swimming when the wind shuts down ever since and have been limited to days when the wind is above 15 knots. There is no place to rent or try different boards in about 1000 miles. I would like to get a bigger board, that will not sink in light winds when i need to get back to shore, but i don't want it to be too big when it starts to howl. I wiegh about 90kgs. I am specifically looking at the futura and am thinking about the 122L and 133L options. Some days we can sail on 4.0 to 4.5m2, is this board to big for those sails - as it is rated 5.5 - 9.0 m2.

I am an intermediate sailer, can water start consitantly, but can not jibe yet. I want to end my swimming career and buy a board that gives me a good range of options that allows me to go out on lighter wind days as well as when it really blows. I really have no experience in choosing the right volume for a board and would appreciate any advice, even from a basic level.
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Old 6th April 2009, 02:30 PM   #2
PG
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At 90 kg, with a need to use sails as small as 4.5 (and even 4.0), I would recommend you something in the 105-110 liter range. No bigger. The difference between +5 liters and +15 liters is huge!

A plus volume of 15 liters allows you to stand on the board with dryish feet while the sail is in the water, i.e. preparing to pull the rig. The board will sink some when the rig is upright and the board is not moving, but it should still be quite comfortable to stand on.

Any bigger board and it will be very difficult to control, and have fun on, in higher winds.

On the other hand, a 105 liter board is not really a good lightwind+bigsail (like 8.0) combo at your weight. It is not floaty enough.

Maybe a Future 111? But it may be a handful with a 4.5.
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Old 6th April 2009, 09:18 PM   #3
mim
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Default Hi...

I think F is a good choice for blasting and jibe learning...but it will be very difficult to go for a one-board solution for the range you mentioned...

If you want to go out on a 4.0 wheather (which for >90kg guy is 30+ knots) and have it also as a lightwind combo that is kind of impossible.

I would go for 111, and 133 or even 144, you will cover everything from 10kn to 30+...even though I thing the 111 will be too big for 4.0. Well I am 95kg and I take 4.3 out on a day that the gust are over 40 knots (and under feet i have a total sinker of 86 liters).

I am sorry to tell you but one board solution is almost impossible in your case...I bet you can get something cheaper (used or smth, surf rentals usally sell their old boards for something like 50% sell price)...

good Luck anyway.
Ciao Michal.
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PA 86 & eVo 100 (with S-1); iS 101 & 122 & 144 (with Overdrive)
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Old 6th April 2009, 11:22 PM   #4
Screamer
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Muxx

Mim is right, it's impossible for one board to cover "light wind" and 4.0/4.5 weather, period (don't get discouraged though).
What manufacturers usually claim (in this case f122, sails 5.5-9.0) isn't realistic, I guess for someone your weight it would be around 6.0-8.0. You don't say what is exactly your typical lightwind day, and what is the biggest sail you plan to use? I guess you could go for F133, it will carry around 9 for you and keep schlogging comfortable. You can keep your 95 for high wind (what's that board btw?) or replace it with some ~100l.
True 4.0/4.5 wind for a 90 kg sailor - that's 95 l board territory, or if it's holey, around 105l max.

One more thing: if you really need a board that can handle ugly conditions, but with a bit more volume, maybe you should look at the bigger Kombats/Kodes (rather than F).

That's probably not what you wanted to hear, but trust me that single board doesn't exist yet (and I've tried).
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Old 7th April 2009, 12:55 AM   #5
Floyd
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Question

Way I read it you are looking for a relatively high volume board with good top end control and ability to cope well with chop.
At your weight you can use smaller than minimum recomended. (perhaps half metre under min rec???)

Personally wouldnt go Futura.Top end control is not its forte.Its fast and wide for any given volume.Not ideal for high wind easy control. Big code(110 litre) would be better bet.(if new)
Its a common problem for heavier sailors ;ie looking for a board that can cope in 30 knots but just enough volume to get home if wind dies. I had kombat for a few years and it did the job great. (105 litres) Goya FXR (105) and F2 style (109) also worked well.Fanatic Hawk/Eagle might do job also.(Eagle a touch wide)
Dont go too wide. (max 63 ishcm)

You will need 105 to 110 litres.

Good luck.
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Old 7th April 2009, 04:53 AM   #6
wiindz
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you have a problem muxx, i live in montreal so same kind of conditions as you im afraid i am a little bit lighter then you however, which does help me out a bit, i have 2 boards, which i think is a must minimum in our kind of weather. 115l for <15knts days, and 88l for anything after that. at 70kgs about, with a 6.6 the 115l starts flying on me when its gusting 18knts, so i have a choice, either switch down to a 5.8, in which case i can sail the 115l quite comfertably up to about 25knts ish, on a good day with flat water, then i could switch down to 4.8 and so on, and it is sailable, but you will have so much more fun on your 95l after about 20knts, that it will just feel stupid to switch down to a smaller sail on a bigger board. as they say. no pain no gain, but if you rig so that your always sailing right at the top end of your sail on the 95l, even if the wind drops, you should be able to back down the sail tension and get back to shore for a rig change. honestly, sailing in 4.0/4.5 weather with a 105l powered up is not my idea of fun, my friend wieghs about the same as you, took out his mistral explosion 103l in 4.5 weather with a 4.5, and while he had a good time, he was flying all over the place wayyy over powered, and he knows his way around a board if you know what i meen. i went out with my 88l and 4.8 and had an absolute blast. look, 105l ish in 4.5m weather is deffinately do-able, you know pull out the little fins , crank everything down and move the straps all the way back and all that jazz, but its a pain!!! not to mention 4,0 weather! i where you, i would buy a comfterble <20knts board, and use your 95l board after that rigged a bit bigger then you should rig that way you can spare yourself most of the swimming, ......
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Old 8th April 2009, 10:11 PM   #7
Floyd
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Question 105 litres in 30knots +

Dont really think a 70k sailor can give an enlightened view on a 90k sailors choice of board; especialy when it contradicts another heavier sailors advice.

A 90k salor CAN have lots of fun on 105 litres (and more) in 30 knots (andmore)if he chooses correct 105 litre board. Fair comment he`d go better/easier etc on less but less would not answer problem.(ie get him home when wind dies)

Wind is similar at my venue.I`ve stopped trying to use ideal board for exactly reasons mentioned. Boards I`ve listed WOULD be fun in 30 to 35 knots for 90k. I`m heavier but have used mentioned boards in a good deal more and though not deal were still "fun".

Watch good freestyle sailors; effectiively using boards"too big" and having loads of fun.( My 65k mate use 90 litres(JP frrestyle pro) in 4 metre weather. (4.7 for me). (Thats like putting a 90 k sailor on 124 litres; saying a 90k bloke cant have fun on 105 is plain wrong !)
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Old 8th April 2009, 11:58 PM   #8
Ken
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Muxx,

I understand the no wind and getting home dilemma. For that reason, the board that use in most windy situations has enough volume to give me just a little bit of float (deck just dry) so that I can uphaul or sail in 0-5 knots without struggling.

The upside is that I can easily get home regardless of the lack of wind.

The downside is that the board is too big on windy days, but manageable.

My usual sailing site has a big wind shadow near shore (25 knots outside and holes with as little as 0-5 knots inside).

I have a smaller "sinker", but I only use it at sites where there is solid wind with no holes.

If you know exactly how small you can go and still have a "floater", that's your board.
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Old 9th April 2009, 04:04 AM   #9
wiindz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Dont really think a 70k sailor can give an enlightened view on a 90k sailors choice of board; especialy when it contradicts another heavier sailors advice.

A 90k salor CAN have lots of fun on 105 litres (and more) in 30 knots (andmore)if he chooses correct 105 litre board. Fair comment he`d go better/easier etc on less but less would not answer problem.(ie get him home when wind dies)

Wind is similar at my venue.I`ve stopped trying to use ideal board for exactly reasons mentioned. Boards I`ve listed WOULD be fun in 30 to 35 knots for 90k. I`m heavier but have used mentioned boards in a good deal more and though not deal were still "fun".

Watch good freestyle sailors; effectiively using boards"too big" and having loads of fun.( My 65k mate use 90 litres(JP frrestyle pro) in 4 metre weather. (4.7 for me). (Thats like putting a 90 k sailor on 124 litres; saying a 90k bloke cant have fun on 105 is plain wrong !)
fair enough, i should have probobly worded it better, yes YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN HAVE LOADS OF FUN with that kind of board/ wind combination if you choose the right board and if the water state alows. however, no matter how much you weigh, the plain fact is that if you go on a smaller board, same modle and year for argument's sake, you can rig bigger and handle more power while still in reasonable controll. the point is, you take a bigger board you kind of have to rig small if you dont want it to fly on you, weather rig small for you is 4.5 or 5.5 due to your weight, it doesnt matter but it certainly has to be smaller. now, asuming that you are sailing flat water, as mentioned here (i.e not waves) you want to go fairly fast id presume or do freestyle, in wich case its almost always reletively big boards with relitively small sails.
from what i understand, the idea is more todwards speed here, its comon knowlage that theoreticaly small board with bigger sail will go faster then bigger with smaller sail, i dont care how much you weigh thats true for everybody. so obvously if speed is the objective, smaller board +bigger sail, as i mentioned before, is going to go faster and therefore be more fun (for me anyways!)
what i was merely sudjesting, is since you seem to have a high wind board that your happy with, your 90l why not just buy a light wind board to complement it instead of one board to replace it and be a lightwind board, since your buying a board anyways... if you have the cash, id say go formula or bigger slalom board for <15knts, if you have no waves its hard to beat that!!
if you still want to buy a "one board quiver", look into something a litle more wavy to improve the top end turning ability and control, then again it won't be very effective in light winds...take a look at the kode, it's supposed to be good all across the board(kind of what you need...)

Last edited by wiindz; 9th April 2009 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 16th April 2009, 08:55 PM   #10
Floyd
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"I am an intermediate sailer, can water start consitantly, but can not jibe yet. I want to end my swimming career and buy a board that gives me a good range of options that allows me to go out on lighter wind days as well as when it really blows. I really have no experience in choosing the right volume for a board and would appreciate any advice, even from a basic level."

Was the original "question" !


A good "allround" 105 to 110. (even 115 !!) would be fine.
kombat; kode(???); style; synchro. xtc. not too slalom dedicated.(Not futura !)
even a Hawk or Eagle. try a few in conditions you mention.



There are LOTS of boards that even though the have get home buoyancy work great when overpowered. (S type is at its best then)
Good luck
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