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Old 5th March 2007, 03:01 AM   #81
The Hoff
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Quote:
GeorgeUSA39 wrote: but does the Apollo get planing earlier
previously

Quote:
Hugh Jarmes wrote: the Apollo planed a little earlier
also

Quote:
GeorgeUSA39 asked: in other words does it get planing in 6 knots of wind versus 8 knots of wind?
previously

Quote:
Hugh Jarmes said:Whilst, the planing speed of a board will be different for sailors of dissimilar weight and ability, for me the Apollo planed 2 mph (approx 1.75 knots) slower than the 160
??????????????????????????????????
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 5th March 2007, 03:25 AM   #82
barks
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Quote:
The Hoff wrote:
Quote:
GeorgeUSA39 asked: in other words does it get planing in 6 knots of wind versus 8 knots of wind?
previously

Quote:
Hugh Jarmes said:Whilst, the planing speed of a board will be different for sailors of dissimilar weight and ability, for me the Apollo planed 2 mph (approx 1.75 knots) slower than the 160
Wind speed required to plane (the question) and board speed when planing (the answer) is not the same. The way I understand this is that the Apollo had a board (or vindward?) speed (but not wind speed) 1.75 knot lower than the 160.
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Old 5th March 2007, 03:50 AM   #83
The Hoff
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Quote:
Hugh jarmes wrote:The wind was good for testing the Apollo today. Average 10-12 mph initially (more in the gusts) dropping off to 8-10 mph later.
and

Quote:
Hugh Jarmes said:Whilst, the planing speed of a board will be different for sailors of dissimilar weight and ability, for me the Apollo planed 2 mph (approx 1.75 knots) slower than the 160
Is GeorgeUSA39 the same weight and ability as Hugh Jarmes?

Basically, according to Hugh jarmes, the Apollo planed earlier than a 160 in the same windspeed (as best he could measure it)

If George can't understand what has been said, why doesn't he buy one (or if he can't afford it - ask hugh if he can borrow his)
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Old 5th March 2007, 04:38 AM   #84
Hugh Jarmes
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

There appears to be some confusion between the wind speed required to plane and planing speed. I don’t mean to be patronising but it is clear some education is necessary. (Some poor soul is bound to jump down my throat for that)

I will not bore you with hydrodynamics (Bernoulli, the boundary layer and the like) but Starboard state that it is the board (hull) design, which makes it plane earlier.

I hope most will realize that without enough propulsion a body (boat or board) cannot plane. Think of a speedboat – if it doesn’t have enough hp, it won’t plane. Similarly, to plane on a windsurfer you need power. This power must be enough to overcome the resistance of the water (the frictional forces between the board and the water) to enable the transition from displacement to planing. The weight of the board, rig and sailor are all factors affecting the amount of power required to overcome this resistance.

For those of you that race Formula, you will know the frustration of a R.O.D. calling a start at or about minimum wind speed. Some guys (either lightweights, those with excellent pumping technique or those with bigger or more powerful sails (not always the same thing) will plane while the rest of us sludge around pumping for all we are worth and perhaps we might get planning for some of the race.

Therefore, all other things being equal (weight, sail size, wind speed and sailor ability) it is the hull shape that determines planning ability and my test had the above within the limits I stated (i.e. wind speed - which is always variable). I then quoted board speed as the differential factor between the planning ability of the Apollo and 160 by way of comparison (as this was easily measured - GPS - and fairly accurate)

If anyone has performed similar tests, I would be very interested.

I hope this helps

P.S. Please read previous posts before making comments that were answered in them.

P.P.S. It would have been fatuous to state whether or not the Apollo planed for me in 6 or 8 knots of wind because if it did, it may not have done for someone else. (I don't plane in 8!)

P.P.P.S. The original question was "has anyone tried the Apollo yet - Does is it plane up in 2 knots less wind?" I say again, 2 knots less than what? (What is good for George might not be good for anyone else)
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Old 5th March 2007, 09:53 AM   #85
steveC
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

No offenses to anyone here, particularly regarding the insightful and honest posts by Hugh and George, but this Hoff thing really got to my funny bone. I've got to admit that comments, with the picture of David H., the whole thing just took off in a humorous direction. No question, quite outlandish in nature, but nonetheless, quite camp. No harm in a good laugh every once and a while.
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Old 5th March 2007, 04:44 PM   #86
Hugh Jarmes
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Some more photos as promised

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Old 5th March 2007, 06:15 PM   #87
Denis GER 189
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Tried the Apollo yesterday with an Deboichet R18S-- R+10.

It planes a lot earlier than any other board, haven't seen something like that before. But if the conditions get near to racing conditions, the 161 is faster....
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Old 5th March 2007, 09:57 PM   #88
mark h
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi Hugh
Thanks for sharing this info with the rest of us & the pictures are great, it's good info to most of us, as the majority would not be in a possition to try both boards side by side. My question is, on first impressions, which one are you going keep, Apollo or F160? I'v been told the F161 planes even earlier than the F160, so maybe the F161 is a bit of a compromise!!!

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Old 12th March 2007, 09:13 PM   #89
pfaffi
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Now I can share a view more details Apollo vs F161: Last testrides on our Lake Neusiedlersee/Austria showed that I can go down with my 93kg/184cm on my Apollo to the planing limit of 13km/h(7kn). I used my 11sqm and my friend who is with his 73kg/169cm usually much better in light wind as me used same sail size but the F161. Moreless we had same up/downwind angle and same planing limit. So with the Apollo I can comensate my 20kg+ in light wind. Over 11kn basic wind speed I will use my F161.
Have fun and go fast,
Peter, AUT-84,
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Old 13th March 2007, 02:49 AM   #90
Hugh Jarmes
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Default RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Peter

Thanks - it is great to get your view

But what fin were you using on the Apollo?

And what was the fin on the 161?

I think this is important information when making a comparison.

I found that the 75cm fin has a great deal to do with the early planing ability of the Apollo. Unfortunately, a 75cm fin is not legal for racing.
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