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Old 29th April 2010, 11:37 PM   #41
ChrisN
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Belscorpio, I have posted an answer where I quoted your response - see on the other thread...
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Old 29th April 2010, 11:53 PM   #42
Ken
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Bel,

I believe your point is valid and even when not planing, pumping the sail will not only add force and lift into the sail, but with the corresponding leg action, the board will become unweighted for brief moments. In addition, the leg action will be pumping the fin for additional lift. All of this works considerably better with a light, stiff board and you get on plane quicker and easier than an identical board with greater weight and less rigidity.

The only question is how much of a difference in weight and rigidity is needed to make a noticeable difference in the planing threshold?

This is ChrisN's question......................
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Old 2nd May 2010, 11:30 AM   #43
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ChrisN,

Is there a particular reason why you don't want to get a formula board?

When I settle down somewhere near a windsurfing spot, formula kit is on my list of things to get to really max out my windrange/sailing time.

This video really depicts the performance you can get on these boards with 6 knots up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjkZfIOlh18

So zen and fast despite the light wind.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 11:35 AM   #44
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The video also shows how much better Formula equipment performs in light wind than freeride kit, as you'll see the other windsurfer on the water near planing.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 07:10 PM   #45
ChrisN
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Thanks for the great videos! I've tried to answer your question from another angle, on the other discussion we have - see thread.

Yet, on your question on WHY NOT Formula, I feel that Formulas is not what I need. The area I would be sailing with such boards has often side- to offshore winds, so the wind as well as the chop picks up as one moves more into the open waters. There is therefore a lot of variation in wind-strength gusting from 5 to 15 knots on a low wind day (i.e. no white caps in sight close to shore). So, what I need is a Light Wind board that will be able to start planing in a wind range so far exclusively reserved for Formula windsurfing. Formula boards seem to be mainly designed to go upwind like a train and straight downwind, while reaching is not their strength, while jibing is less fun for more recreational sailors.

Thus, I focused on the largest Slalom boards, like Starboard's iSonic 144 or Fanatic Falcon 145, or RRD X-Fire 135L, or Taboo Manta 85 /135L, all of which were 85 cm wide slalom shapes. Now there was also the iSonic 150L an 93,5cm design which was highly recommended (yet only in WOOD), untill you brought into our attention a board from JP specifically designed for the specs I highlighted above - the JP Super Light Wind 90 cm wide, longer than the iSonic (by 10 cm) and with more volume (i.e. 154L).

So, what does SB thinks about that? Will the iSonic 150 Wood still plan AS EARLY as JP's SLW in Carbon/Gold editions?
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Old 4th May 2010, 12:46 PM   #46
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Interesting that you mention the RRD X-Fire 135. I believe on their website they said something along the lines of designing a board that could plane in 7knots. I like how they really differentiate each board in the same series, as obviously their uses will vary. RRD seem to be doing quite well in races with Finian M, up there with JP (Antoine and Micah) and the SB team riders.

Again, I wish I had the means to test the different boards, it would be really interesting to see if there is a correlation between most convincing marketing and performance on the water.
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Old 4th May 2010, 03:19 PM   #47
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Agrelon, I do have the RRD X-Fire 120L already which is a great board! Finian has recommended the following:
"The RRD x-Fire 120 may start at 8 knots, but performs best in 12 - 17 knots of wind with any sea condition. Sails used; 9.5, 8.6, 7.8m and 48, 46, 42 cm fins";

The same type of recommendations can be made for RRD X-fire 135L (it is comparable to iS133) - it will start planning with large sails /10m2 from around 10 knots; there is a big gap between 7 to 10! If I was Finian then I could probably sail from 8 knots; there are plenty of magazine tests of RRD's 120 and 112 - all very positive, very close to the iSonics yet better jibers.

On marketing, unless you lie, it is proven that companies that "believe" in the superiority of their product have nothing against objective tests and showing off their comparative performance (this is from Kottler). Marketing is then a part of the "pride" of delivering such a great product - think about Apple!

The response from SB on our LOOONG conversation has been TOTALLY lacking - this less than lukewarm response is probably an indication that they don't really believe that their top-quality product is that different from their mid-range ones. They are certainly not marketing their products properly - if you see the other websites like JP/ Taboo/ Fanatic, you feel that there is a clustering effect at SB - no distinction is made betwen various boards or even technologies within a range like iSonic (i.e. I need to Google to find information on iS150)!

There are places in the world where you can test such boards - check OTC...
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Old 8th May 2010, 10:50 AM   #48
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http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8703

Thierry on this thread says some really good stuff about Formula boards for lightwind freeriding. Makes me want to get one...
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Old 9th May 2010, 05:33 AM   #49
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Yes, I think that ThierryP is "spot on" when he says:

Quote:
"dans le vent léger, je navigue sans aucune recherche de performance, uniquement pour le plaisir de la glisse"
I couldn't agree more. That's exactly how I think. I dont need to be the fastest in very light winds. All I care about is planing and stay into it, no matter wich courses, also the ones sharp to the wind. That's also efficiency AND fun !

I will get my performance kicks above 15 knots with much smaller boards.
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Old 10th May 2010, 01:27 AM   #50
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I'm just back from my first session of the year.
It were light wind conditions.
When I arrived there was about 9 knots of wind going to 10. Northern wind, which is probably the most stable with us.
So I chose my F161/ 9.5m2. Perfect combination.
I also saw a lot of guys planing on big slalom equipment, some better then others.
When it got to 11 knots, I've tried my 125L freeride board (similar to the futura 122) with the same 9.5 sail.
From 11 knots it plans as quickly as the F161, but MUCH harder to point.
This is what I wanted to know and share with you.

Hang loose and have fun !
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