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Old 1st June 2010, 10:29 PM   #71
Meric
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I think the JP90 was mentioned in this thread.
There are a few pictures from JP frontpage:
http://www.jp-australia.com/2010/index.php?id=1
And a first test by riks:
http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/news/...lw-report.html
Very nice board!
I guess SB is going to come with a similar board!

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Old 2nd June 2010, 06:15 AM   #72
ChrisN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I sail in an area with gusty winds (who doesn't?). The JP formula is a nice board and it will carry the biggest sails and fins; however, in gusty conditions you often have next to nothing in wind and then gusts of 9, 10 or 11 knots which is enough to get up and going on a 9.5 or 10,5 sq. m. sail with a smaller board. I'd rather be on the Is 150 with a 10.5 than on the JP with a 12.0. In a steady sea breeze the JP (formula boards) may be on a plane more consistently since they'll go through the lulls better with their huge fins and sails, but it's more work. So in a steady sea breeze the formula is a better choice, but in light gusty conditions I have more fun on smaller light wind equipment that is highly efficient. Personally, I think the Is 133 (131) may be the most efficient board I've yet sailed, but I prefer the Is 150 for 9.5 m. sails and bigger because it is easier to carry these sails with this board and it blasts in these conditions. If I could only have two boards I'd probably take the 150 for lighter gusty winds and the 101 for the higher gusty winds.
Deja Vu, thanks for these explanations! Sounds that when one want to have FUN in early winds, Formula becomes too "racy". As Bel & Mark wrote, you are willing to give up a bit of planing efficiency provided by a Formula board, yet have more fun in varying gusty conditions on the iS150.

What do you then think about the more "modern" designs in this lightwind Slalom/Freeride class, e.g.the JP Super Light Wind, L:237cm, W:90, V:154L. In comparison with the IS, JP is looking more like a rounded square-tailed formula with a wide OFO (JP: 70,3 cm, while iS150:65 cm and Formula HWR: 81, LWR: 78). Further, the JP is delivered in lightweight carbon-based constructions - the Pro: 8,6 Kg, and the Gold:~8 kgs. iS150 has 4L less volume and it's Wood version weights the same ~8,6kg (no WoodCarbon available!)...

Check out Meric's excellent reference to a dealer's initial Test & Movie of the JP SLW board and the see the picts below; the german SURF will test provide a comparative test in July. I would wish there were similar overviews as the ones from Rik (with yours, Mark's and Bel's commentary) for SB's boards like iS150.

What do you think? Is this JP SLW similar to the iS150? OR, do you think that SB will come up with a new design for this light wind segment?

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Old 2nd June 2010, 06:20 AM   #73
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Very nice review by Rik, wished all reviews were one like that. Rik has a great reputation over here in the UK, so I his review will be accurate.

Looking at the numbers/shapes, I still feel that the SLW will have a slight edge on early planning, and the iS150 will have a slight edge in top speed.
Things would very close is the SB was slightly longer/slightly wide tail but still had the very low nose. Possible mods for the 2011 model???

I made a reference to logged GPS speeds on the SLW, it must be noted that when Rik logged the GPS sessions, he was on a Neilpryde Helium 7.5, and Rik weighs 63kg. Plug in a full race sail (9m/10m) and it would be go faster. But I still think the iS150 will be fastest, just

I do think iS150 and JP SLW are the only two super light wind XXL slalom boards out their. As Rik states, XXL Freeride's do feel a bit boring in comparison and formula to technical for most. But, if you want formula purely for light winds, its not technical at all. Formula only gets technical/physical when the winds pick up or water state becomes harsh IE full on FW racing. Worth bearing that in mind

Both of these are serious light wind options. The SLW does seem pretty expensive at 1800 c/w 1275 for the iS150. I even so a close-out deal on a 2009 iS150 at 999. Not sure if 1 knot lower planing threshold is worth that much more???
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Last edited by mark h; 2nd June 2010 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 08:20 PM   #74
Deja Vu
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As mentioned, I presently own the JP Formula, Isonic 131 (WC) and the Isonic 150. If I could only own one I'd keep the Isonic 150! Its like a mini formula in some respects with its upwind and downwind ability and its fast and responsive (well, more so than a formula) on a reach and will carry big sails with ease. Tacking is easy, but gybing is a little harder than say the 131. From the video it looks to me that the JP is a slightly detuned slalom board while the 150 is a full on slalom which probably means the JP gybes easier, but gives up a slight amount of overall performance in other areas (but maybe not).
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Old 3rd June 2010, 08:34 PM   #75
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I own a couple of JP boards (formula and the 114 slalom) and I like them, but the problem is I also own the Is 150 and Is 111 and those are the boards I want to be on, which means the others don't get used as often as they should - that's just my preference. There are just too may variables to recommend just one board and its very difficult to try before you buy - very frustrating.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:12 AM   #76
ChrisN
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Dear forum members

Many team members and forum contributors have requested to get the comparative results from the latest SURF Magazine's test of Light wind /Early Planning blasters. It seems that SURF has been receiving a lot of requests on this issue and decided to conduct such a comparative investigation. I took some time off during holidays to properly translate this test into ENGLISH so we can finally close this and many other threads - see attachment...

Even prior to the arrival of this new generation of Light Wind Free-Racers (like JP SLW 90), there were ample discussions in these forums on "early planing", "comfort while slogging", "comfort while sailing" and hefty exchanges on the relevant equipment. Many of these parameters and attributes have been debated in-depth in this and in many other similar threads this last quarter; some of the latest focused on the SB's answer to JP's SLW and another one on the Lightest Wind board.

On the significance of board-weight on early planning, SURF underlined similar results as their earlier tests (see further up in this thread or in the other thread on this issue).
Lightweight or "lighter" versions of these boards not only "feel", but rather ARE earlier on planning (i.e.SURF states: "any extra pound puts the brakes on in light wind conditions"). Thus both the LORCH Birds, JP SLW 90 PRO and SB Futura 155 have an advantage in this test!

I was surprised that SURF didn't provide their customary teutonic table of comparative performance scores between the boards in the article. So, to reach a better "holistic" view of the comparative performance between these light-wind blasters, I made an effort to create such a table based on the text. As you can see below I summarized the text of the test into a number of discernible parameters; they were then scored based on the outlined text.

The German SURF magazine could have put an end to all the early planning speculation, yet the article brought in an additional [explanatory?] parameter in the foreground when it comes to the earliest planning boards without active support (i.e. pumping). Longer NOT Shorter boards seem to be the best "easy gliders"! These boards are able to reach planning without significant pumping (i.e. passive planning). As you can see from the table below, the longest LORCH 179er is the best planning blaster. SURF states that it matches perfectly the new early planning sails (i.e. NP Helium, Severne Glide, SailLoft Traction and Gaastra Plasma - also tested in the same issue). While Formula is an extreme, the JP SLW and SB F155 seems like compromises with longer bottom curve and significant width...

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________
|OVERALL_PERFORMANCE__|_PLANNING_|_PLANNING_|_PLAN NING_|_HANDLING_|_LARGE-GEAR_|__SPEED_&_|__UPWIND_|_MANEUVERS_|_MANEUVERS| ~SUMMED~|
|_____________________|_PASSIVE__|__ACTIVE__|_THR. LULLS|_COMFORT_&|_SAILS+FINS_|ACCELERAT_|__SPEED_| ___TACKS___|___GYBES___|~SCORE~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|JP-Formula-100_______|_____6____|_____7____|_____7____|_____4 ____|______7_____|_____5____|_____7___|______5____ |______3___|~~~52~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|JP-SuperLightWind-90_|_____6____|_____6____|_____6____|_____6____|__ ____6_____|_____5____|_____6___|______6____|______ 5___|~~~53~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|Lorsch-Bird-149______|_____6____|_____5____|_____5____|_____7_ ___|______4_____|_____5____|_____5___|______5____| ______6___|~~~47~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|Lorsch-Bird-179______|_____7____|_____5____|_____6____|_____7_ ___|______6_____|_____4____|_____5___|______6____| ______5___|~~~51~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|Starboard-Futura 155_|_____6____|_____6____|_____6____|_____7____|_ _____6_____|_____5____|_____5___|______6____|_____ _6___|~~~52~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|Starboard-iSonic 150_|_____5____|_____6____|_____6____|_____6____|_ _____7_____|_____7____|_____6___|______5____|_____ _6___|~~~53~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|
|Taboo-Manta-FR-85____|_____4____|_____6____|_____4____|_____6____ |______5_____|_____7____|_____6___|______4____|___ ___7___|~~~49~~~|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------|--------|

Table Notes: I hope that most of the parameters are self-explanatory; for example "Large Gear" expresses the ability of the board to carry large Sails and Fins, while "planning thr. Lulls" highlights the boards ability to keep planning through wind-holes.


The table above shows that if all the parameters are weighted similarly (i.e. weight=1), then there are 4 boards: the JP Formula, JP SLW, SB F155 and SB i150 that reach similar scores! Which board is best then?
If EARLY PLANNING means most then as the Diagram below shows the best board on the market for "relaxed" early planning or "easy gliding" potential is LORCH's BIRD 179'er. Yet is that the best board?

__________________________________________________ ____________________
|PLANNING-(PASSIVE)___|AVG_|__1__+__2__+__3__+__4__+__5__+__ 6__+__7_|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|JP-Formula-100_______|_06_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[---]|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|JP-SuperLightWind-90_|_06_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[---]|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|Lorsch-Bird-149______|_06_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[---]|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|Lorsch-Bird-179______|_07_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|Starboard-Futura 155_|_06_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[---]|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|Starboard-iSonic 150_|_05_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[---]+[---]|
|---------------------+----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
|Taboo-Manta-FR-85____|_04_|[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[OOO]+[---]+[---]+[---]|
|---------------------|----|-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
Table Notes: Passive or static planning implies planning with no pumping!


As there are no two people alike, preferences may vary depending on Skill, Competence, Weight, and other Contextual parameters (such as chop vrs. flat water sailing, speed vrs. recreational, competitive vrs. freerace tendencies, etc). To be able to answer and award winners we need to distinguish some rough clusters of preferences.
Hence, I used the above table scores with a well known 3 different classifications or profiles created by a series of different WEIGHTS, each representing a typical preference within a category.

I summarized my subjective opinions in the table shown below (and I AGREE that different scores may apply):

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________
|___PROFILE-WEIGHT____|_PLANNING_|_PLANNING_|_PLANNING_|_COMFO RT_&|_LARGE-GEAR_|__SPEED_&_|__UPWIND_|_MANEUVERS_|_MANEUVERS_ |
|_______TABLE_________|_PASSIVE__|__ACTIVE__|_THR. LULLS|_HANDLING_|_SAILS+FINS_|ACCELERAT_|__SPEED__ |___TACKS___|___GYBES___|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+------------+-----------|
|FREE-RIDE-PROFILE____|_____2____|_____1____|_____2____|_____ 2____|______1_____|_____1____|_____1___|______2___ _|______2____|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+------------+-----------|
|FREE-RACE-PROFILE____|_____2____|_____1____|_____2____|_____ 1____|______2_____|_____2____|_____2___|______1___ _|______2____|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+------------+-----------|
|RACING-PROFILE_______|_____1____|_____2____|_____2____|__ ___1____|______2_____|_____2____|_____2___|______1 ____|______1____|
|---------------------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+------------+----------+---------+------------+-----------|
Table Notes: Again, self-explanatory! As an example, weight of 2 means more important than a weigh of 1, thus TACKS weight of 2 means that it is important for Free-racers (and intermediates), yet not as important for Slalom- and Competition-hungry racers.


Now, if we look at the Scores per Profile a more varied picture emerges, where for Light-Wind-Performance, JP's SLW 90 and SB's Futura 155 emerge as the BEST FREE-RIDERS, SB's iSonic150 seems to be the BEST FREE-RACER, while the Formula-board representative, JP's Formula 100, emerges as the best RACER along with the iSonic 150. We also need to mention that the new LORCH BIRD 179 seems like one of the best "gliders", meaning an easy planning and handling board for intermediates - a GOOD FREERIDER!

__________________________________________________ ________|_BEST-PERFORMANCE|
|OVERALL_PERFORMANCE__|_FREE-RIDE__|_FREE-RACE_|__RACING___|__FOR-LIGHT-WIND_|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|JP-Formula-100_______|_____78_____|_____88____|_____85____|~B EST-Racer~~~~~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|JP-SuperLightWind-90_|_____83_____|_____88____|_____83____|~BEST-FreeRider~~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|Lorsch-Bird-149______|_____76_____|_____77____|_____70____|~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|Lorsch-Bird-179______|_____82_____|_____84____|_____77____|~Go od-FreeRider~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|Starboard-Futura 155_|_____83_____|_____86____|_____79____|~BEST-FreeRider~~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|Starboard-iSonic 150_|_____80_____|_____90____|_____85____|~BEST-FreeRacer~~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|
|Taboo-Manta-FR-85____|_____74_____|_____82____|_____77____|~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~|
|---------------------+------------+-----------+-----------|-----------------|


I hope that this assessment has shed some more light into the question on which are the best board for light wind blasting - XXL Slalom, Formula or the "new generation" boards (i.e non-formula light wind FREERACE boards)? While wide Race Formula and Slalom boards seem to be keeping their leading positions in their respective categories, there is a new FREE-RIDE / FREE-RACE category that is BOTH Wider + Longer, representing boards focused on Early Planning, or Low-Wind FREE-RACE boards.

In summary both the JP SLW 90 and SB iSonic 150 emerge as winners, with the former as a great freeriding board and the latter as one of the best allround racing/ free-racing boards able to challenge the Formula boards in light winds. Now if SB could provide this iSonic in a light-weight construction it would be nearly unbeatable

Thanks to all the great contributions and insights shared...


PS: Given some house projects I've delayed the acquisition of the light wind blaster, so I am also excited about the 2011 SB prospects; If the iSonic 150 is updated and lighter then it will my board of choice, else the JP SLW 90 in the GOLD construction (est. 7,6 kgs!) will be the board to go for
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SURF-LightWindBoards_TEST_Aug10.pdf (41.5 KB, 33 views)
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Old 12th August 2010, 07:18 AM   #77
mark h
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That's a very in-depth report by Surf, nice. Thanks for translating it Chris
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Old 12th August 2010, 10:23 AM   #78
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Now that I've had some time recently on both the Is 131 and 150 i have to confess that I prefer the gybing ability of the Is 150 over the Is 131! That's a big surprise for me since the Is 150 is about 8 cm. wider.
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Old 12th August 2010, 09:21 PM   #79
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These comparative tables, are those the work of ChrisN rather than the Surf Test team? Or can they be downloaded in German somewhere?

What strikes me is the conflict between what Surf actually wrote "For us the Bird 149 is the Board in the test with the characteristics that best matches the power sails available and allows the joy of planning in the lower wind-ranges." and the result in the tables which ranks the Bird 149 as the worst board in the bunch... The outcome is of course different if the objective is to use a 10 m2 race sail on the boards (which probably does not do much for early planing).
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Old 12th August 2010, 09:42 PM   #80
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chrisN,

Wow, amazing evaluation and great detail! Thanks for sorting all of this out for us.

At some point in time after my Starboard F160 wears out (not for a couple more years at least), I will be shopping for a replacement. By then, there will probably be a nice selection of light wind planing boards since much of the world is confronted with light winds.

The popularity of these light wind blasters is contingent upon the acceptance of large rigs (9-11 meter) by the average weekend sailor. Most think that anything over 8.5 is unmanageable, but they are wrong. I believe this is where windsurfing needs to focus to increase its base of sailors.

While my favorite kit is a 6.0 with a 105 liter board in 20+ knots, I would be sitting on the beach most of the year if it weren't for my iS 111 and my formula board. If a 65 year old that weighs 77 kg can manage a 11.0 race sail in 8-15 knot winds, then we must convince the rest of the world that it's fun and exciting to sail in 8-12 knot winds.

For the longboard enthusiasts, keep it up if it is your thing. I prefer planing over cruising so I go for the big stuff. I have always had longboards, but they just don't do it for me unless I am racing.

PG,

Regarding your comment on race sails not doing much for early planing - you are correct, but If you live in a area where the winds are gusty, I much prefer giving up a knot in early planing for a broader wind range and control in the gusts. It's a trade off and is dependent upon where you sail.
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