Go Back   Starboard Forums > Free Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23rd August 2006, 07:34 PM   #31
scotty
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 45
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Is planning in 6 knots of wind possible with Formula? That's impressive if it is! 4 knots sounds impossible to me, but lets hope it isn't!

Tiesda, that was a great explanation. I do have one thought about your website in that specialty products like the Serenity, Apollo deserve more than one page. Something like Exocet have done for their Kona or Hot with their Superfreak helps creat more understanding and thus interest and confidence to try a more radical product.

just my two cents,

Scott
scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2006, 08:35 PM   #32
James
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 236
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

To Scotty-

I use the stock 70 cm drake fin with both my 12.0 and 9.8 for no great reasons other than I'm pretty light (72 kg) and I can't afford aftermarket fins on my grad student stipend! If price were no object I'd get some of Kashy's fins- a powerful 70 and a low-drag 66 or something.
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2006, 10:02 PM   #33
G
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 143
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hallo,
like many people here I have lot of questions about how do the 2 boards work.I'm enough confident that both are 2 great products.As you've said they're both racing machine but they perform best in 2 different wind range.OK.
Please,for a normal formula sailor (ex. 80 kg,180 cm,11,0 mq sail) what is the dead line for the Apollo vs 161?
I mean,I know that Antoine is able to race and win easy in 25 kns on Apollo but many of us could have some difficult....
How much harder is play the Apollo game when pretty windy?
Till now every short Starboard formula has had the easyness in every situation as prerogative (expecially when hard).Does the Apollo continues this tradition?
Do you expect to see more Apollo or 161 in the race courses?
What is the Apollo feeling when sailing?I mean,158,159,160 were similar (not the same!).
I remain much curious about 161 too.What are now its best points?
Thank you
G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2006, 10:18 PM   #34
scotty
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 45
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

I guess the interest in either Apolo or 161 iare very different depending on your usage requirements. I'm purely recreational these days, but still want speed over handling to a certain degree.

So for me I like the idea of a dedicated lightwind board which I could use up to a max of 15 knots, but ideally gets used in 5 - 12 knots. In a way both the Serenity and the Apollo are matching boards for me, in that lightwinds where I normally wouldn't go out in become accessable to sail.

The things that put me off Formula gear was price and the size of it all and the hideous look of it all! (no offence Tiesda ) I prefered to slog it on my IMCO until one day my buddy who used to bug me to join him in recreational formula sailing went sailing past me in winds I though impossible to plane!

So now I've sort of joined the club with a 10m sail and F-148. I'm just adjusting to the setup and it's funny how you get used to such a big sail!

Scott
scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2006, 10:35 PM   #35
G
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 143
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Scotty,maybe the apollo's born with a different philosophy behind but to explore all the best it can do we have to go on a big rig as well (with exactly the same problem formula stuff presents!).No way to plane in 6 kns and a 6 mq!So I can't accept your point of view of people lovin slogging here and there on IMO while wait for a miracle stuff.Get a powerfull combo,pump up your sail as hard as you can do (I'm sure you know what I mean) and gain the plane.
We're all part of the same family.... ...sometimes different skills
G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2006, 10:47 PM   #36
scotty
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 45
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161


But sailing on big rigs isn't always what everyone wants. The fun in railing a longboard upwind is also something which is enjoyed by many. It's a much more serene feeling, just crusing along, which is why I'm sure the guys at Starboard decided to go back to the roots of windsurfing and provide those who enjoy windsurfing with less effort a modern twist of an old design. (Div 2 & ocean Kayaks)

For me the Serenity is a more exciting product than the Apollo, mostly because it's slender lines are more appealing.

scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 05:30 AM   #37
Jean-Marc
TEAM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,343
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Scotty,

Yes, the FW class rules set a wind limits at 6 knots and yes, a FW board can plane as of 6 knots with a big sail (11-12.5 sqm), depending on your weight and skills (plenty of posts on this subject).

Althought both the Apollo and Serenity target ultra light wind, they do on different scale with distinct segment's end results : planing with the Apollo as of 4 knots (true ?) or "gliding" with the Serenity as of 1-2 knots of wind.

The Apollo looks extremely interesting to me because if I can achieve planing as of 4 knots with that gear, this will be a very significant leap from my actual 7 knots of wind planing threshold with current gear. I mean 4-6 knots of wind is 2 Bft, i.e., almost half the wind force of 3 Bft (7-10 knots). By contrast, FW's planing threshold is only 6 knots, so not worth the investment just to gain 1 knot over 7 for my case...

Cheers !

JM
Jean-Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 11:24 AM   #38
GeorgeUSA39
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

FW rules wind minimum is 8 knots not 6, however the best sailors can plane in 6. So the question is can the Steve Allen's of the world get this board to plane in 4 knots?
GeorgeUSA39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 01:30 PM   #39
Tiesda You
Dream Team Designer
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 38
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi JM,

1) Assuming the minimum planing threshold for a FW board is 6 knots of wind, are you really able to make the Apollo planing with as low as 4 knots of wind ? Is that correct ?

Tricky one to state specifically as planing early involves not only the board but also the wind conditions, water conditions and the sailor's weight and ability; what is categorical however is that the Apollo planes earlier than a Formula board to the point where FW can become viable as an Olympic class (and FW itself can hold races more often).

2) Would a 80 cm fin be able to lower the planing threshold even further or not ?

I'm pretty sure it would, but with diminishing returns. We've been using 75cm because it's a less scary step than a whole 10cm, and its a good size to start lowering FW wind limits.

3) What top board speed are you able to reach : 8, 10, 12, 16 knots, i.e., twice to 4 time the wind

Another tricky question to answer. I confess I wasn't wearing the GPS when testing.. When we test the boards, we invariably go head to head to find results because GPS readings can be misleading. But a key point to remember is that an efficient high-aspect planing surface not only needs less energy to get planing, but it also starts planing at lower speeds.

Hi Scotty,

I like the idea, thanks! Will get on to the case with our web people..
Tiesda You is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th August 2006, 05:57 AM   #40
Jean-Marc
TEAM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,343
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Thanks a lot Tiesda !

Cheers !

JM
Jean-Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 06:35 AM.