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Old 19th September 2006, 10:02 AM   #61
Remi
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Milk Laser,

Their is no marketing plan here, just a new board to open your mind of what Apollo can give to the Formula Class. Particulary help to valid races in light wind condition. If you look to what happen in Portugal, Leba and Korea, you can see easily that the Formula equipment that we have right now need to be improve in this light winds (sails, boards and fins). The Apollo open a screen with his wider tail and 75cm fin.
The plan is definitely to make only one board next year who cover both F 161 and Apollo, but with a 75cm fin.
All the best
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Old 19th September 2006, 03:03 PM   #62
milk laser
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Remi,
I'm not discussing better performance and progress of Apollo. I want make people to pay attention to social side of that board.

Do you remember the years when formula was borning? There were three years in a row when each year the boards width were increasing aprox 10cm. Technically we have a good board, but what happened to racing scene. I remember that during those 3 years it was totally lost. People was tired to buy new different width board every year. All the racers went to kiteboarding. In 2002 we started the season with clear IFWC standards, and 3 participants in competition. Now we have 10-20 FW sails in weekend races. It took 4 years to grow what was lost. Maybe now you understand why 75 cm and other improvements doesn't inspire me. Why we must repeat mistakes? I think it's too much motivation, believing and inspiration to be a "racer in racing community" will be lost. Maybe it's time to think in both directions and think what new designs gives to promote the sport locally. Your arguments about Leba, Korea and portugal defends only high level competitions organizers side.

So, my proposition is not to register Apollo for IFWC. When the next year Apollo will be ready to replace existing FW board, then it will be good decission. It's your responsibility to keep active and numberous local fleets too.

Lost of one racer in local communities is a big loss. To become a FW racer tooks about 3 years. Those are the years when beginner eats a whole fleet spray, adopts physically. looses every race, sees the leaders passing him sometimes two times. There was an hope that TOW will help him to become better. Now it's clear that only $ and additional board wins racing. It's straight way to kiting. And I see it now.10-15percent of people have left FW for kiteboarding and freestyle this year. Then let's promote kiting.
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Old 19th September 2006, 07:14 PM   #63
scotty
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Actually I kite, but have finally joined the Formula world... or more preciely the free formula world! My feeling is hardcore racers might imbrace such a design, but perhaps the one board limit should be maintained. So if you pick the Apollo for the year, you have to use it even if it's blowing 25 knots!

However I do agree that upping the equipment war isn't ideal as it for sure hurts fair competition. However the Apollo is great for lightwind recreation sailing so provides a new opportunity for regular guys to get planning!

One aspect I do think Formula sailing should alter is max sail size! 12m is huge and means big guys keep the advantage. If sails dropped down to 11m max, then the big guys would have to go for a fuller slightly slower sail, giving the lightweights the advantage for a change!

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Old 19th September 2006, 07:52 PM   #64
Remi
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Milk Laser,

I understand perfectly your point, the reason why I propose at the last Formula Windsurfing AGM to lock in 2008 for 2 years the boards. That means all boards register the 30 september 2007 will be valid until 30 september 2009. No change between. This will help the majority of the racers. They can keep their boards 2 years.
The Agm was completely agree with this proposal, so valid for 2008.
All the best
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Old 19th September 2006, 08:13 PM   #65
Remi
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Scotty,

I am not really agree concerning the 12m. For exemple during the last World Championship Steeve Aleen (81kgs), Michael Polanowski (80Kgs) was using a 12m and they show us that they was faster in light wind compare to heavy racers like Antoine Albeau (100Kgs) with 12,5m.
But the real interesting point is to make smaller sails (11m) who is more powerfull than the 12.5m. So the sail will be more easy to use for everybodies. Right now is really difficult to use this extremely heavy sails and doesn't help the class for sure. So hope that all the manufacture will work in this direction.

All the best
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Old 19th September 2006, 08:18 PM   #66
crwind
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Remi,

You didn't answer my last post on Appolo and having a limited Edition that weights less (1-2 kg?) and is NOT Formula Class.
That would follow on you comment on having only one board next year mixing Appolo perf in light winds and Formula.
So for next year, a very light (as light as possible) and specialised Appolo, opotimized for light wind and non Formula racing?

I look forward to you reply.

Salut!
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Old 19th September 2006, 09:48 PM   #67
Garda
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Edited
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:17 AM   #68
Remi
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Garda,

Where you see that??????? I never insult anybodies. So please make attention what you are posting here.

Best regards
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Old 20th September 2006, 01:25 AM   #69
scotty
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Remi, what you said is true, but once the wind becomes normal, then big guys just have such an advantage. By limiting the sail size, it would add balance, unless racing always occurs at 6- 11 knots. Being a small guy, getting beat by big guys sucks!! :@
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Old 20th September 2006, 02:41 AM   #70
crwind
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Remi, pls have a look at my post, please!!!!
No one seems to care about weight... strange for a Xlight wind board discussion?..
Salut!

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