Go Back   Starboard Forums > Free Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20th September 2006, 03:19 AM   #71
milk laser
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi, scotty
"However the Apollo is great for lightwind recreation sailing so provides a new opportunity for regular guys to get planning!"
Recreation and competition are two different things. In recreation you are motivated by planing, exploring new places - relaxation thru being sure you'll be planing easily. In racing you are motivated by fight and wining. Not necessary to became a champion, you can compete and win or loose to guys like you, but if you know that you will loose before start, then racing looses all its atraction.

"One aspect I do think Formula sailing should alter is max sail size! 12m is huge and means big guys keep the advantage. If sails dropped down to 11m max, then the big guys would have to go for a fuller slightly slower sail, giving the lightweights the advantage for a change!"
I don't agree with this. 12 compensates the weight difference. What really works in racing is fittness and body dynamics with strength.

Garda, thank you very much for support, but I don't feel anybody is insulting me. I'm telling facts from my experience. Ignorance of facts or history causes repeating it.
milk laser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 07:23 AM   #72
scotty
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 45
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Milk,

I just think even with two guys equal fitness, skill etc, the equipment and general wind strengths make it so big guys do better. I remember Robby Naish commenting on this and he's big compared to me.

Anyway that's my beef!! :@
scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 07:35 AM   #73
Remi
STARBOARD DEVELOPMENT
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Thailand
Posts: 2,453
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi All,

At the last Worlds their was a light weight division so no more problems with the sail size.

All the best
__________________
Remi

Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards :

Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161
Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141.
iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117 & 130
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

UltraSonic 147
Formula Experience One Design
Phantom Race 377 & 377 L / 320
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Phantom 295 L :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Formula 167 :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Racing Serinity Cat Concept
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Remi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 07:48 AM   #74
sitka
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

here is an older early planer

sitka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 03:33 PM   #75
JW22
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

1. Is sailsize was max 11 meters I doubt that Antoine would even been t the worlds. He would not have a change then. With th current max sailsize everyone can pick his optimum. We regulary get beaten by a youngster on 9.8 while sailing 11.5 ourselfs. The rule is perfect as a range and no-one is forced to use the biggest unless you are a big guy yourself.

2. Now that there are weightclasses the benefit for the greater guys diminishes. And some will always be better from nature, that is so in every sport, the tall can play volleybal the small are mostly better for gymnastics. So it will never be perfect in that way.

3. The Apollo is not a must. Most will again choose the F161 and not the Apollo. I doubt if there will be anyone who will buy and use both. The advantage of the Apollo will be not that great that I will be able to beat Antoine with it while he sails on the 161 in the lightest winds

4. Last but not least I would like to see R&D try to maken a significant lighter board (other building method other materials or what ever it takes) to give us a early planning board at max 6 kg. That would really mean progress. I do not mean FW class legal but completely out of the box as is tried with the Apollo too. Any plans on this adventure for Straboard?
JW22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 08:15 PM   #76
Remi
STARBOARD DEVELOPMENT
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Thailand
Posts: 2,453
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi JW22,

To built a board at 6kgs it's probably possible, but the cost will be really high compare to what we have right now.
Some years ago Ahd try to do it and finaly they don't sell Formula, the price was really too expensive.

Are you ready to pay double price?

Do you think that really help the majority of Formula Racers?

We are trying to make a board that can replace the RSX in London 2012. And in this case the package have to be at the same price as the curent Olympic board.

All the best
__________________
Remi

Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards :

Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161
Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141.
iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117 & 130
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

UltraSonic 147
Formula Experience One Design
Phantom Race 377 & 377 L / 320
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Phantom 295 L :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Formula 167 :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Racing Serinity Cat Concept
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Remi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 08:46 PM   #77
JW22
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hello Remi,

I personally would pay a double price (once in two years from 2008 ) but I do realise that I will be a minority in that aspect. So I understand that there will be no big enhough market to go that way.

I also do not think that it will help the majority of Formual Racers (and I did not mention that as a goal of my idea), at least not in one or two years, it may so in say three or four years.

In the end, if you would be able to significantly lower the weight of the board, maintaning the current strenght of the boards and produce it in big enhough quantity's it might introduce a completely new eara.

For the olympics it might be the only way to go, cause you need to be able to plane as soon as possible and in those marginal winds weight is a significant factor, yes?

What happend to AHD was not only because of the buildingmethod but I see your point. At the same time starboard was able to make a little heavier board that was equally good performing so no one really needed to buy a AHD. If you coudl come up with that excotic Apollo lightversion (- 6kg) you probably have the new standard for lightwind windsurfing.

Would be great to have an invester who would pay for the R&D to make something like this happen. That invester should also invest in the first years of productiocosts so that the market will get enhough hunger that quantity can lower the final cost of the board. I know it can be done but one has to think out of every box (even the wallet one )

Who knows, maybe someday, I keep my fingers crossed and will enjoy every moment sailing with my current formula gear.

All the best,
JW22
JW22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 08:52 PM   #78
crwind
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Remi,

A bit iritating that you won't even care answering my post but address the point from others...
Another thing, please understand that with the Appolo, some of use are NOT interested in Formula class (your Q: "will that help formula class?" I don't care when it come sto Appolo.) Also, we want a board that flies in light air, not something to go to the Olympics!
So make it light, as light as possible, we will pay the price and get the light wind machine for NO racing. I think there is a market there, no?
Salut,
crwind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 08:52 PM   #79
crwind
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Remi,

A bit iritating that you won't even care answering my post but address the point from others...
Another thing, please understand that with the Appolo, some of use are NOT interested in Formula class (your Q: "will that help formula class?" I don't care when it come sto Appolo.) Also, we want a board that flies in light air, not something to go to the Olympics!
So make it light, as light as possible, we will pay the price and get the light wind machine for NO racing. I think there is a market there, no?
Salut,
crwind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2006, 10:30 PM   #80
windstock
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Quote:
milk laser
Member

Posts: 6 Do you remember the years when formula was borning?
Can you remember about when the formula class was started?

Here's a little help from a rec.windsurfing post from 1993

Copy and paste

the url thing isn't working for me

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.windsurfing/browse_thread/thread/430969c72a56be6a/ac58530ed40741c7?lnk=st&q=formula+42&rnum=1&hl=en# ac58530ed40741c7


Quote:
scotty
Member

Posts: 41

By limiting the sail size, it would add balance, unless racing always occurs at 6- 11 knots. Being a small guy, getting beat by big guys sucks!!

Being a big guy, getting beat by small guys sucks!!
Small guys on four year old 9.8s have won against heavies with new 12.5s in the avarage light wind racing we have around here.

Quote:
crwind
Posted on 20-09-2006 19:52

Also, we want a board that flies in light air, not something to go to the Olympics!
So make it light, as light as possible, we will pay the price and get the light wind machine for NO racing. I think there is a market there, no?
Salut,
What do you mean when you say we?

Quote:
We are trying to make a board that can replace the RSX in London 2012. And in this case the package have to be at the same price as the curent Olympic board.

All the best


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remi
Thought this class would of learned from the last selection process to get out of the Olympic Windsurfing biz.
Maybe if you get the ISAF to publish there class specs to match what you want, and place sombody on the selection board to direct the process you could have a chance.

ISAF dosn't seem to be interested in an established class. They would rather start from zero and allow two years to build it

By 2012 the rsx could have enough particpants to really claim that there an international class (not just olympic).
That's if NP dosn't cut there losses and bail on the program after the 08s.
windstock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 01:45 AM.