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Old 16th November 2010, 07:02 AM   #21
Roger
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Hi Nico,
If you make sure that the std. Tuttle fin head really fits in the Serenity center fin box, there is no way that
the fin head or the fin box can "slowly enlarge"! (Your term, not mine).
If you use a bar of bath soap as a contact marking media), and make sure that the std. Tuttle fin head is a nice tight "push fit" all the way into the fin box, with no slop or space on the sides, and then fit the front and rear tapered radii so that the fin bolts "pull" the fin head into full engagement with the front and rear tapers, there can be no "wear" or "slow enlargement" as there will be NO (zero) movement!
Without any movement, and full contact between the flat parallel sides of the fin box you will get the maxumum support for the fin in the fin box.
Make sure that the fin "slides in" nice and tight, all the way in, but that it sits proud (slightly above) the bottom surface of the board when you push it in by hand.
Then when you tighten the fin bolts, you will "draw" the front and rear tapered radii into full engagement.
You will need to find some longer (about 18 mm as that is the design difference between the std. Tuttle
depth and the Deep Tuttle depth) fin screws.
To bad the custom flapper board you have has a powerbox fin. The 66 cm Rainbow might work very nicely
in the Serenity in clean (no weeds)/deep water, but I found that a 60 cm DeBoichet Concept (molded.... not custom racing) was very nice in the Serenity in clean/deep water.
Hope this helps,
Roger
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Old 17th November 2010, 10:49 PM   #22
nakaniko
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All right, you convinced me. And I've also seen all around in the web shops that mostly the weed fins in stock are with normal Tuttle head, also the 40 cm deep. Therefore I'm thinking to use the space left in the finbox by de DT-TT difference to place a rubber bumper, to make thinner waist fin screws to be broken in case of hard impact, and other strange things.. Yes I am pessimistic.
Going to my parent's house to test the fin on the Serenity (fin head too large, I have to sand it), I've met my uncle Mario who keep his boat moored near mine and talked about the mistake of the german shop, showin' him the fin (he's not a windsurfer). He has told me that for him 40 cm deep+10 cm of boat displacement + 10 cm at least of clearance from seabed, so 60 total, can sometime be still a too big amount in some wild places of the lagoon, and for sure for him I'm gonna cut soon a large piece of fin's tip. In fact we both have tipical venetian boat with flat bottom who go less deeper under the water surface.
So I was thinking as second and last fin to buy in the U.S. (or tell my brother in Seattle to buy for me hoping he's gonna remind that Christmas is coming...) at this, normal TU head:

This is the link on a UK site: http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/live/...10-2473-0.html (not the us site where I want to buy it). Specs: Delta XXL 27.5cm (Relative 45-50cm).
Only 27,5 cm of depht seems to me a dream, and a Select fin should be a warranty... And finally the Serenity shouldn't have problems with a so nice but fatty fin, if it keep his speed even with that flexy plastic fin provided as second fin after the monster and professional 70 cm, I mean the black plastic Shallow 40... ;-))
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Old 18th November 2010, 09:30 AM   #23
Roger
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Hi Niko,
I've never seen a weed fin of this design, so I have no idea if it will be good on the Serenity.... or not.
If your brother is in Seattle, WA, USA he could easily purchase a True Ames or Tangent Weed fin (more conventional designs... both of which I've used in the Serenity.
Not sure why you did not get the Lessacher Design 36cm or 40 cm Duo Weed? I have also tested these 2 fins in the Serenity pretty extensively.
Let us know how the strange looking XXL from Select fins works please?
Regards,
Roger
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:04 PM   #24
nakaniko
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Let's see if the us shop quickly answer about this "pan" shape fin (up to now they doesn't answer), my brother is coming in Italy for Christmas; unfortunately I know it for sure only from few days so I could not check the US web stores before. And so now that I already have a normal weed fin I was only thinking something for I hope my Christmas present and the ultra-raked low-depht (27,5 cm!) Select seems something different and useful for my needs. And I hope it will comes to me for free...

So I don't need another normal weedfin like the one I have. Anyway I've seen True Ames (so nice! love the shifted forward shape); not easy to find the Tangent. Here the True Ames

So it could have been a very interesting choice, obviously knowing it before, because buying with an overseas shipping it's pricy and almost not possible as italian border officers heavily charge almost all the items, even if it's clearly written on the packet that is a gift from my brother (it happened to me two years ago with a pair of snowboard bindings). And therefore they have the same price of Lessacher Duo Carbon fins here in Europe, about 100 euro.

About these last, pheraphs I made a mistake not following your first suggestion. But I've found some trouble.
First everywhere seems to be available only the Duo Weed 32, not or no more for this season the 36.
32 works good for 8,5?
Second, I've found everywere only the pricy black Duo carbon seaweed at about 100 euro (today =135 USD) even if on Lessacher website were and still is shown the G10 version. Yesterday Lessacher itself has answered that G10 Duo are sold out; for the heavy use I need I wasn't trusting so much in carbon fibers, note that on my actual powerbox G10 Fanatic I've sanded away scratching it on the seabed pheraphs 1 cm of the tip but the fins is still in good shape and working properly; and I (wrongly?) thought that a carbon construction could have some problems of loosing some layers on the tip and delaminating, as it happens with old carbon masts. Lessacher told me no delamination issues on his carbon fins.
Therefore I wanted the 40 to have the closest lift compared to the provided 70 with the lowest winds.
But first of all honestly I wanted to spend less and I've spent 58 (78 USD) instead about 100 (135 USD); gaining for the difference some stress and confusion...

Last edited by nakaniko; 18th November 2010 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 24th November 2010, 04:08 PM   #25
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Default Serenity selfmade boardbag

After the seaweed-fin-brainstorm (thanks and excuses to everyone) here it is how I solved the problem of the Serenity boardbag, almost necessary for protecting the board in the rude carrying over my traditional wooden boat, full of sharp corners. I write here hoping it can be useful for everyone who cannot find the original (pricy) Serenity boardbag; I've looked for it but no answer in Italy, so I decided to do something on my own.
I thought that Serenity is something like two boards fused togheter on the stern, I mean having two long bows, so I started searching for two even used old boardbag made for pre-2000 no-nose board, or in any case long and not too wide. I needed two simple model, to avoid increasing too much the weight to carry and for better matching between the two sterns of the boardbags.
I've easily found them in clearance in a former windsurf store (now snowboard store), at a very cheap price. Really I decided to use only one of the two I''ve bought, the more simple, for the second for the stern of Serenity I've dug up from the bottom of my cabinet the former old bag of my Mistral Echo 298.
Then, after some tests, I've put the new (blue) one on the bow turned at 90 degrees with the shorter side of the side zip on the side of the hull and the longer side on the upper deck. This way I can close a little bit the zipper just over the mastrack but I can also leave the mastfoot mounted if I want. So the high bow edge is well protected. With a simple elastic rope circle is easy to keep folded the "wing" of the boardbag left over the deck of the bow.
For the stern I kept the other old (yellow) boardbag flat, the original edges of tail were already cut for other pourposes, so they arrive perfectly at the middle handle bar of the board that remain almost free to be used! Even with a no-nose shape the boardbag leaves enough room for leaving the little tail fin mounted and wel protected too.
Photos soon, here it is one.with final result

Last edited by nakaniko; 24th November 2010 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 1st December 2010, 08:25 PM   #26
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Rigging a sail for Serenity.
As I have different options to rig my Hotsailsmaui Stealth 8,5 (7 batten freerace camless) and eventually the same sail in 9,5 I was wondering if for heavy guys like me, 90 kg, would be the best to rig on a softer or stiffer mast.
This because I found that on the Raceboard Sails specs is written: "Rigging tips: Light sailors can use a 490 mast with mast extender that would soften the rig and allow it to flex and breath. Medium and heavy weight sailors can use a 530 or 540 mast."
But on the specs of Serenity 2008: "The most suitable sail types are powerful freeride and freerace sails. To optimize lightwind performance, rigging onto a softer mast and creating a deep draft in the sail is recommended."
So for Serenity always better a softer mast or a stiffer one for us heavyweight sailors?
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Old 1st December 2010, 08:56 PM   #27
Roger
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Hi Nico,
90 Kg. may not qualify you as a true "heavyweight"!
With modern sails, that twist off alot at the top, going with a softer mast (for sure a mast that is softer in the top section) is going to make for more twist and less draft in the top of the sail.
So, you will need to downhaul alot less than normal to keep some draft in the top of the sail.
Twisty tops work in lots of wind and in gusty conditions.
Fuller tight batten tops that do not "twist off" so easy make better sails for things like the Serenity.
Not sure why you want to go with such a big sail as a 9.5 m2.
A 7.5 or 8.5 Glide on a 100% mast, with a carbon boom, may be very nearly as fast as your 9.5 m2 as these rigs will weigh significantly less.
I think your HSM Stealth 8.5 is going to work pretty well if you under downhaul it so the top stays full and
run the outhaul at neutral.
Remember to bend the mast until the front of the batten above the boom gets back to about the middle of the mast (front to back).... then just a touch of outhaul to stabilize the foil.
This will make it as full as you can get it on the mast you have.
If the top is really loose, look for a slightly stiffer mast.
Roger
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Old 1st December 2010, 09:30 PM   #28
nakaniko
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Mmm I understand. Thanks also for calling me not true heavy guy, even if I'm 175x90.
Thanks to your suggestion I think I will not carry in Venice the 9,5 (it's also a quite hard work...). I was thinking that a 8,5 can work up to the wind level that I can easily plane with my wide freeride board; and I've tested that a 9,5 is not so good in handling in an almost narrow board; and then if that planing level is 12 knots, this mean leaving some space for the most exciting I hope situations of speed with Serenity, after the gliding with the lowest winds (already bought a dry backpack for one day trips in my lagoon, and I'm gonna buy a "safety" sup paddle also..)
The 8,5 is a still good sail from 1999, required mast 490/29. Worked surprisingly good with North 490/28 30% carbon (now cut down to 460); shape seemed full and sail soft even if the rig was heavy. Then I've bought on sale a Tribord by Decathlon 490/30 100% carbon, rig much lighter obviously but sail the only time I've tested it with that mast seemed almost flat. If I well remember the sail was told to be pretty flat when not under wind pressure.
I'll do some tests (after these 4 months of snow that I hope are coming).
Below some old photos of 8,5 rigged with the North 490(460)/28 and planing with Mistral Echo



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Old 2nd December 2010, 08:35 PM   #29
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Another chapter. Even if I've not yet used my Serenity, I've noticed some things that I hope can be useful for the next Serenity boards of the future years (I hope so, it is a milestone board!), obviously if found interesting. If not I beg your pardon.
First: in my opinion on every board suitable for medium and long cruises could be really useful the old little towing handle placed over the tip of the hull that many boards had before 2000, like is on my Mistral Echo. For safety reason would be important for being towed, but useful also for everyday use. I mean also for Phantoms f.e.; but not the imho weird large handle of beginner boards, something nice and in style with so wonderful board.
Second: the design is really outstanding, so nice, the painting effect is somewhat reflecting. But as for all windsurf boards the antiskid was given over all the deck surface, even if I don't think i'll walk over the tip so far down there and the same over the tail, and therefore there is also the nice and wide pad where you put the feet. My girlfriend won't appreciate so much the antiskid if I'll convince her to sit on the Serenity deck and let me carrying her in romantic sailing cruises ;-))...
Third: fin boxes and handle box paint, black is not so stable and some black traces remain on fin head everytime i screw it down, also some little layers of black paint felt out of upper box made for screwing the fins and for drinks storage. Nothing dramathic but check it, this black seems not of the same exceptional quality of the white of all hull.
Four: don't now the reason tor the choice of us box for the tail as it's o slow to use it and always thinked not so hidrodynamic, and in a board that is based in the smartest hidrodynamic design... And as I've read in this thread about the not so huge importance of this fin, I don't think there should be noticeable differences in using the rear fin in different positions in the box, insn't it? What about a simple strong and very quick Minituttle box? For which can be found a lot of fins never so long to damage the thin stern of the board.
Last would be something about the old boring debate about tuttlebox-powerbox, yes for the main "daggerfin" of Serenity the deeptuttle box is necessary, but having to fit inside it 4 (four) fins and having to spend a lot of time for sanding and adapting each head of them to the box (except the already perfectly prepared Drake 70), like I've never had to do with 20 powerbox fins makes stronger in me the opinion that the original tuttlebox has something that should be changed and/or improved. And for all the fin heads one moment theye were too wide, after sanding away for few seconds another micron, fin head entered the box even too much; imho that's because tuttle is not conic shaped on the side walls...But pheraphs something to talk about in a separate thread.

P.s.: for the first problem, I've seen that on the Serenity Catamaran you've placed two footstraps, one on each bow, for I suppose, this exact pourbose. So adding the inserts for the same footstrap also over the "simple" Serenity could not be difficult, but surey very useful.
All the things I've written I hope they will be considered simply suggestion to improve an already wonderful board

Last edited by nakaniko; 15th December 2010 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 8th January 2011, 03:30 AM   #30
nakaniko
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On the long way to spring, for little self-gift for Christmas I've bought (10 euro for a couple...) that tiny "seaweed" tail fin I've spoked some time ago, to have also in the tail a somewhat seaweed fin like on the main dagger-fin.
Yes, not the more technical fin ever seen, made of something like plastic or nylon, but nice, with some rake and with some flex in the tip. Neither the smartest shape, therefore, I had to work some time to correct the shape as both the fins of the couple were asymmetrical on the same side (so not intentional, bad moulding).

As the tail fin seems to be useful only for keeping better the direction especially going downwind (and someone even don't use it sometime), I was thinking that screwing the fin the more backward possible it would have almost the effect of the larger and squared stock fin (as wavers do for onshore conditions they say to me). And in this position an eventual strong hit can make the nut go out in the central hole, so avoiding worster finbox breackage (nut can be fixed there because the sliding grave of the nut it is made diagonally from surface to the back side of finbox)
Here the photos.





And here the advantage of keeping always screwed the rear fin with the homemade neoprene tail protector (hehehe, yes, one arm of and old shorty wetsuits, one leg became the nose protector...)


(sorry for bad quality)
Also a softer fin could help in boat trasportation, absorbing inevitable hits instead of trasmitting them to the finbox...
Opinions? Suggestions? Could it work?
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