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Old 13th November 2010, 07:32 AM   #1
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I would like some advice on which large board to purchase: a Carve 171, a Carve 151, or a Futura 141. I have only one goal in purchasing a large board, and that is to plane early in light winds with an 8.5 meter sail. I am not concerned about jibing or tricks with a board that big—my interest is in planing and blasting back and forth, and that is all.

My largest board right now is a 120 liter with 250 cm length and 68 cm width. I use it with fins from 44 cm to 33 cm. The sails I use the 120 with range from 5.5 to 8.5. But with an 8.5, the 120 doesn’t plane quite as early as I would like when the wind is light 8.5. In fully powered 8.5 wind it does great.

I also have an 85 liter board for really windy days and sails of 4.8 and 4.2.

I don’t want a larger sail than 8.5. I had a 10.0 and prior to that a 9.5. I used them with a 2002 Starboard formula board which I have sold. The 10.0 and 9.5 did not work well where I live. The wind can change from 15 mph to 40 mph too quickly where I sail and I would get down-in-the-water overpowered on the huge sails about 5 or 6 times each summer. That was no fun at all and also dangerous. With the 8.5 I get overpowered once in a while but can usually make it back to my launch site.

My sailing is on flat water, usually lakes or a sound.

I weigh 160 pounds (73 kilograms) and am 5 feet nine inches (172 cm) tall. I am a fairly competent but not great sailor. I am comfortable in the straps, can plane through some but not all jibes, can water start with ease, and can reach reasonably good speeds (30+ mph/50 kph). When I say I am comfortable in the straps, I mean I have no problem when they are in the middle position—not out on the rail and not in the most inboard position. I have trouble with straps that are way out on the rail because I have HUGE feet.

About 40% of my sailing is done on an 8.5. Most days I am very happy with the 8.5 and 120 combination, but some days I am not planing as early as I would like, and thus I want a bigger board.

The Carve 171 is 271 cm by 86 cm and has 171 liters of volume; it is rated from 7.0 to 10.0 sails. The Carve 151, the second largest Carve, is 254 cm long and 80 cm wide with 151 liters; it is rated for sails from 6.5 to 10. The Futura 141 (the largest Futura) is 246 cm by 81 and has 141 liters; it is rated for sails from 6.5 to 10.0. I don’t care about the smaller sail sizes—remember, I have a 120 that works great with sails from 5.5 to 7.5 and fairly well with an 8.5, so all I want from a big board is early planing with an 8.5.

Whichever board I get, it will have the wood construction.

So my questions are:

Which of those three boards would best suit my needs? I know that usually a bigger board/wider board will plane earlier, and that makes me think the Carve 171 is best. But I also know that rocker line, rails, bottom shape, etc., play a role in early planing, and so maybe one of the other boards would plane earlier. Is the 171 going to plane earliest with an 8.5 since it is biggest? Or does it have a rocker line and rail shape more for beginners (and thus not the best for early planing)?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 14th November 2010, 12:08 AM   #2
Del Carpenter
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Jack, I'm curious about the windspeed range your new board would fit, 10-15 mph, 12-17 mph, 14-19 mph?

When I am not planing as early as I like (or at all) I use a longboard which changes my experience from dull slogging to nice cruising while still keeping the possibility of planing. The Starboard products which I think would add the most pleasure for you are the Phantom 320 or the Phantom 380. I'm sorry I don't know enough about your intended choices to be of any help there.
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Old 14th November 2010, 07:56 PM   #3
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Del,

I sometimes think you are right--that I would enjoy a longboard more than a big shortboard. I wish I had never sold mine. To answer your question, I am interested in using the big board in winds from about 10 to maybe 16 or so. Those numbers may not be exact because I don't have a wind gauge, but the point is that I am interested in light winds. So is your advice still the same?
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Old 15th November 2010, 06:34 AM   #4
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Default jack

"i don't know jack" , butt you seem against Formula and giant sails

the earliest planer i have seen here is a heavyweight on an iSonic 133
he also does NOT go over 8.5
since you are much lighter than he, perhaps iSonic 127 or 117
looks like both can handle an 8.5 and with your weight they s/b good

perhaps someone in the SB crew would be best placed to answer your question ?
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Old 15th November 2010, 10:09 PM   #5
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Joe,

You are right, I think. I am against formula. Well, actually, I really enjoyed my formula boards when I had one But the really large sails don't work well where I live. The wind here can triple in velocity in the blink of an eye. When I used the formula board and sails larger than 8.5, I often had bad experiences---out on the water, having a great day of planing, and then all of sudden the whole lake was boiling. It is not like living on the coast where the wind can blow 14 all day long. Here it blows 14 and dies or blows 14 and then goes up to 40.

So my problem with formula boards is that I don't think I need one for an 8.5. In fact, 8.5 seems a little small to get much benefit from a formula board.

Thanks for the advice. I will research the Isonics. My one fear is that the footstraps may be hard to get into.
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Old 16th November 2010, 01:35 AM   #6
BelSkorpio
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Hi Jack,


Like always, my personal and humble opinion.

So you're not looking for any tricks, you are talking flat water, and you want an early planer to blast around in light winds, forget the carve and go for an Isonic.
With your weight of 73kg, I would not go bigger than the IS117 (75cm), perhaps the IS117 wide (80 cm) if you strongly want to point upwind.
Don't pay too much attention to the volume, it's the width that counts. This sounds like a cliché, but it's the truth, especially for a light weight guy like you.
The IS117 will plane much earlier than your 120L board of only 68 cm, also because of the wide power tail of the Isonic. For your 8.5 sail, I would suggest a fin of 46 or 48cm.
I'm using a predecessor of the IS117, i.e. the IS122, with an effective volume of only 114L and a width of 75cm in light wind conditions with sails 8.4 & 9.5. The 8.4 sail is right in the sweet spot of the board and I weigh 86kg.
Bigger boards will only make life more difficult when the wind suddenly and severely picks up.
Also to be efficient, bigger boards need those bigger sails where you are afraid of. By the way, I can understand this, when the wind force suddenly triples.
Those bigger boards only help going extremely upwind or in ultra light winds.

Hope this helps.
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Old 16th November 2010, 11:44 AM   #7
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Default Jack

Belskorpio,

Thanks for the advice. It was exactly what I needed. I am very appreciative.

Jack
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Old 18th November 2010, 10:04 PM   #8
Del Carpenter
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Jack, sorry I'm late in responding. Is your lake large enough that slogging for 5 minutes will get you to an open area where the wind is not gusty? If the answer is no, then for your 10-16 mph conditions I would still choose a hybrid or a longboard. If the answer is yes, then Belskorpio's advice sounds pretty good. How often do you have the opportunity and desire to go windsurfing but don't because the wind is only 5-10 mph? If the answer is more than once a month in your windsurfing season I would choose a hybrid or a longboard.
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Old 19th November 2010, 07:03 AM   #9
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Default Jack

Del,

Thanks again for being so helpful. You have a great attitude of helpfulness.

Let me try to answer your questions.

My lake is about one mile wide by one mile long. There is only one place to launch. In a southeast wind, if we go out half a mile we get better wind. But usually when the wind is from the SE it is good enough that I can plane on my 120 and one of my four sails. A more common direction is NE, and in that wind the wind does not get stronger the further we get from the launch. So I think you would say a longboard is best.

You asked how often I go out and want to sail in 5 to 10. Not often. Maybe once or twice a month. (I sail about 70 to 90 days a year, so once or twice a month is not often for me.)

Let me ask you this. It has been years since I sailed a long board. When I did, I wasn't as good as I am now on shortboards and at planing. My big fear is that I might find long boarding boring. Can you please comment on that.

I really do love to plane, but I don't want to buy another short board if it is only marginally better than my 120 (keeping in mind that I really don't want to have a sail larger than 8.5). So I am torn between going for an Isonic (as Belskorpio suggested) and planing on marginal days or going for a long board and enjoying cruising. I wish I had more money and a larger van--sure would make the decision easier because then I could buy both an Isonic and a cruising long board. Anyway, my question is this: I know a long board cruises nicely in light winds and will work fine with an 8.5. But will an Isonic 117 Wide be a big improvement over my 120 or just a small improvement? Thanks in advance.
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Old 19th November 2010, 09:21 AM   #10
Remi
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Hi. Jack

That will be an enormous improvement between a 68cm wide and a 80cm wide
Your 8.5 is the size who fit as best as possible this board
If you are looking for early planning and wide wind range with a max of performances go for it
3 cams sails will be enough to give you very good performances
Hope this help
All the best
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Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards :

Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161
Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141.
iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117 & 130
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UltraSonic 147
Formula Experience One Design
Phantom Race 377 & 377 L / 320
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Phantom 295 L :
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Formula 167 :
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