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Old 19th February 2007, 09:36 PM   #1
Klint
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Default Some Streamlined related....

I've been using Streamlined's gear for years and think they generally make good stuff. However, I have some issues regarding the products I don't sort out myself.

Let's start with the tendon joint mastfoot. Before the season starts here in Sweden I want to check that the tendonjoint is ok and eventually repalce it. The screws that goes through the joint are rocksolid and are very hard to open/loosen up. Without ruin the screw head, what is the best way to get them apart? Do I need to push a phillips driver into the opposite screw when trying to get them apart?

Secondly, I'm considering buying a Redline extension. My previous Streamlined extensions are good but under heavy load, lets say 9.0 race sails the base of the extension becomes somewhat deformed. Hence, fitting to the mastfoot are in some cases difficult. Has the Redline series changed in any respect to come clear of this problem??

thanks for your help !


/ Andy from Sweden
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Old 20th February 2007, 01:32 AM   #2
Roger
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Hi Klint,
To get the very small screws that hold the tendon pin in a Streamlined joint, I've found the following tools really help.
A small vice (or a very small pair of vice grips) so you can hold the screw on one side while unscrewing the screw on the other side.
Get the right size Phillips screwdriver (a #1 I think is best) and if you use the vice, you can catch the OD of the opposite screw in the vice so you can really put some pressure on the screwdriver to prevent it from stripping out the Phillips drive.
Or, better still, use the vice on one side, and vice grips (just to break the locktite loose) on the other side. Then the screw will come out easily. Find some longer screws with the same threads and use a really long screw as a "driver or punch" to tap out the tendon retaining pin.
The problems with removing the little pin retianer screws are getting the locktite broken loose, and corrosion.
When you put them back together, use a little Never-Seize on the retainer acrews (lock-tite really isn't necessary) and you will never have any problems taking apart and inspecting them again.
I think the "deformation" issues of the previous bases have been taken care of in the Redline series, but I don't have any of the Redlines yet to make this statement form actual experience.
Alot of the "deformation" issues have to do with poorly fitting downhaul cranks and lever adapters, not so much with the Streamlined bases.
If you fit a Streamlined base, on a genuine Streamlined mast base cup, I've never seen a problem with "ovaling" the base. I have had some small craks appear in the outer tube from the bottom up to the 2 locking pin holes on the sides, but I've never had one break, even with the cracks.
Hope this helps,
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Old 20th February 2007, 10:38 AM   #3
steveC
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Just a note of caution. I was very interested in the Streamline Redline skinny mast base extension incorporating the Euro-pin receptacle, but I was trying to match a Chinook SS universal assembly as part of the plan. Unfortunately, no deal. Chinook's Euro-pin doesn't work in the Streamline base, since proper retention cannot be achieved between the two components. However, if one was to stick with the Streamline universal matched with the Streamline mast extension, everything is sweet. Streamline uses the North pin component (the standard), so the problem is truly with the configuration of the Chinook pin. Yet, the Chinook to Chinook combination works with no problem.
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Old 20th February 2007, 02:46 PM   #4
geo
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Personally I am still using the same WSH extension that I bought in 1993. Pity they seem no more available.

Just my thought. During my windsurfing experience, I sometimes happened to see people doing long swims in due to "Euro pin" failure. Since those parts are machined steel, failure is somehow a built in feature: no matter how thick, strong or "good" the steel, edges of machined metal may develope cracks and finally break under fatigue. This may not happen much often, but OTOH I have NEVER seen any US cup break and leave someone out at sea. I hope that the Euro pin will never become the standard.
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Old 20th February 2007, 07:03 PM   #5
Klint
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Thanks Roger for your valuable advice. One question though, what's the purpose of puting Never-Seize on the tendonjoint screws? Isn't this a lubricant, quite opposite to the features of Loctite?

If so, it's clear that the screws will come out easier when wanting to inspect the joint. But isn't there a risk with the screws comming apart while sailing?

thanks,


/ Andy from Sweden
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Old 20th February 2007, 09:41 PM   #6
utthita
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Default RE: another possibility

I think heat helps release loctite? You could try a hair dryer as it might not damage the plastic and rubber.
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Old 20th February 2007, 09:46 PM   #7
Ola_H
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Klint: I think you got good advice on how to get the screws out. Just a remark, when you have gone through the trouble of getting them apart, just go on and change the tendon while you're at it. Even it the tendon looks OK, there might be material degradation that you can not see. Comparing the low price of a new tendon with the often rather serious consequences of a tendon failiure makes this an easy decision.

Geo: I used to run the Euro pin and never had failures, but I have seen meny others that have. The problem is not the actual pin breaking, its the M8 screw inside (or the screw part of the pin when its one piece) and the most common reason is that the pin no being tightened hard enough. That said, have a look and Norths latest release or the current Chinook variant. Here the pin and the upper tendon fitting is one piece and I'm pretty this is a pretty much unbreakable system. I still run the classic cup system myself, but from an engineering point of view the new North system seem down right smarter than anything else to me. It would allow some pretty slick rdm extensions also.
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Old 21st February 2007, 12:34 AM   #8
steveC
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

I've been dedicated to the two pin plastic cup design for many many years, but in the newer Chinook SS universal I saw an opportunity to go in a new direction. With the classic two pin cup, it has been my experience that the plastic cup component has a pretty limited life before it starts to get too worn and wobbly. Also, I've always had this consistent problem where one of pins shears off. Fortunately, this has never caused a complete failure, as the remaining pin seems to hold everything together. Still, because of the two pin cup's tendency to wear, I got into this rut of having to buy a new universal every year. Not terribly expensive, but still annoying.

I would have probably continued to buy universals yearly, but with a switch to skinny masts I needed to invest in new mastbase extensions. With Chinook's release of the SS universal, it was pretty much a no brainer to switch over to the Euro Pin and go in a new direction. From my perspective, the only point of weakness or wear would be the tendon component. Although the switch to Euro Pin would necessitate adding a retention plate assembly to the board, the advantage would be a more robust two point attachment to the mast track. Even though I never experienced a failure of the single point threaded twist-on universal design (where the SS threaded shaft breaks), I did have a brass T plate completely strip-out in the surf causing my sail assembly to separate from the board. Fortunately I was able to retreive my sail off the bottom of the ocean, but this still took some time and effort.

In going in this new direction, the one unknown I'm unsure of is whether I'm simply trading one wear problem for another. While the SS universal certainly appears bulletproof, I wonder how well the Euro Pin mastbase extension will hold up. I could be that the plastic base of the extension ultimately loses tolerance and wears out just like the two pin cup. In time, I'm sure I'll find out.

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Old 21st February 2007, 12:50 AM   #9
geo
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Two-pin cup may become wobbly, but they won't break. Plus, wear will clearly suggest it's time to buy a new one.
Euro pin systems are simply ill engineered. The screw part in one piece pins are the weakest because of the edgy machining of the screw, but anyhow machined metal will eventually develop tiny breaks that start major ones under fatigue.
In other words, an Euro pin may break, two pin cups just can not (unless extreme cases that I can't imagine but are still possible).
Of course, the occasional swim in is not an excessive trouble; and even less of a problem is for me.
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Old 21st February 2007, 01:07 AM   #10
Jean-Marc
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Default RE: Some Streamlined related....

Quote:
Roger wrote:
A small vice (or a very small pair of vice grips) so you can hold the screw on one side while unscrewing the screw on the other side.
Klint,

I'm not sure a bench vise is enough as a tool to grip the screw's head because on some Streamlined cups, these screw's heads are convex-shaped and there is simply not enough "thickness" for a strong grip to occur. Better hold the cup into the vise and unscrew with 2 Philips screwdrivers. A dab of WD-40 to unlock might be useful. Inspect the tendon for cracks around the screws + axis's hole (inside the cups) every year; I usually change the tendon every 2-3 years depending on usage.

Agree with Ola : Never broke the Euro pin itself, the sping nor the base, but broke the M8 bolt flush that was tightened inside the pin. Main problem was corrosion of the stainless steel bolt, right at the junction between the stainless steel pin and the aluminum cup. Different metal composition can give rise to galvanic corrosion; pitting corrosion of passivated metal such as stainless steel can also occur (both are enhanced by chloride ions of seawater). Even if rust is not visible, care must be taken not to trust stainless steel too thoroughly. Change the M8 bolt every 3-5 years depending on usage since the bolt is under extreme mechanical stress. Same mechanical stress put on the bolt that tighten a US cup with a tendon joint, BTW...

Cheers !

JM
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