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Old 13th March 2007, 10:08 AM   #1
PrydeMan
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Default Board(s) upgrade

Hi,

I am about 82kgs and current have a 2005 model S-type 104, Kombat 85 and EV0 74. My sails are Saber 6.7m, 6.2m, Expression 5.7m, Alpha 5.4m, Combat 5.0m & 4.5m. Where I mostly sail is on a bay, only a couple streets up from where Ian Fox sails.

I am currently thinking about upgrading some or all my boards. I love the S-Type and EVO. My plan is to maybe keep the EVO 74 for the 5.0m and 4.5m sails. What I am confused about is, what size S-type should I go for that suits my weight and the 6.7m and 6.2m sails? Also I would like a board in between the S-Type and the EVO that I can try and learn freestyle with the 5.7m and use the 5.4m when the swells gets up for some semi wave riding? I find the Kombat 85 a little too small for the 5.7m for freestyle.

Any suggestions would help.
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Old 14th March 2007, 03:29 PM   #2
Ian Fox
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Hi Stephen,

Unless you're trying to really boost more bottom end from 6.7 and 6.2m, then the ideal size ST (especially considering the Bay chop vs windspeed ) for your weight/sail size combo is the ST104. If you really wanted to adjust your quiver a little (upsizing your middle board, see below..) and run the ST in even lighter conditions, then the ST115 could also be on the radar. All things considered, looking at the ST as a stand alone choice for 6.7+6.2m /80kg/Bay chop, ST104 still has my money.

Considering you're hooked on the E74 and that's not changing, then typically the "85lt" (2007 = K87..) Kombat would be the logical intermediate "size" choice between the E74 and ST104, especially when considering ride style/rider weight/local conditions. Being a faster and more efficient (as crossovers go..) design, the newer K87 (c/w K85) will offer an easier access to freestyle type performance, while still being small enough to be a realistic wave ride for 80kg riders.

You might want to consider a slight diversion from typical, and consider the larger K97 if you want an increase in Freestyle option.
By size, 97 looks more out of sync with the E74 and ST104, but when measured by useful range and ride/performance, it's not as illogical as the numbers alone indicate...
The current K97 is definitely one of the "magic" boards in the 2007 range that delivers a lot better than it should, and is unquestionably an ideal bay board for anything short of full-on Bay conditions.

Definitely worth a demo, and if you know (or know how to track down) Peter Hands(~85Kg), then he'll certainly give you the low down on his local K97 Bay experiences; if you promise not to destroy it, he might even stretch to letting you ride it

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 14th March 2007, 05:20 PM   #3
Chris Pressler
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Would suggest to grab a FLARE 99. On this board you can learn Freestyle quicker than on any other board and perhaps think about the S-Type 115.
The Evo 75 is great for sails from 4.0 to 5.3. On the Flare you can sail 5.0 to 6.0 sails. On the S-Type 115 you could fix a much bigger sail, too, like a 7.5 or 8.0.
In case of stronger wind and choppy waves in the bay you will feel quite comfortable on the Flare 99.

All the best,
Chris
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Old 15th March 2007, 08:35 AM   #4
PrydeMan
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Guys,

Thanks for the suggestions.
FYI; My current boards as mentioned are only new (i.e. second hand) to me from late last year. My reason for upgrading is I wanted to first get second hand boards to sail them for a year or two find out what I wanted. In the end I have found that these boards are so much fun to sail. I now want new ones. I also have upgraded my sails this season with a bit of changing here and there to get what I think is right for me.
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Old 15th March 2007, 08:46 AM   #5
PrydeMan
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Ian,

I too have been thinking about the ST115 and maybe the K97. With regards to the ST115 what sail sizes would you suggest that would suit my weight and our sailing spot? I notice you also sail a ST on the bay, but I am not sure what size board and sails you use.

I also have an older 2003 model FreeFormula 137 that I use a V8 8.5m and V8 7.5m on, but when the wind gets up enough to use the ST104 I switch over very quickly as the ST104 is fantastic board and the bay gets a little bumpy for the FF137 at this point. I will be keeping the FF137 as I find it great board for those cruising days when you want to go any direction. Pity Starboard still doesn’t make them, as most of the guys down our way would buy them. Next season I will be looking at my sail I use for the FF137.

With regards to going bigger on the ST; I was maybe considering going 7.2m, but I love the Saber 6.2m so much, I still want to use the 6.2m on the ST that I end up with. This is one of my concerns with going to a ST115. Also I would like to get back in to racing next season and the ST I end up with would be my weapon of choice and if the wind was real light I would go the FF137.

With regards to the K97; I would only use my Expression 5.7m for bay sailing and trying to learn freestyle and use my Alpha 5.3m for bay wave riding so to speak. When the wind gets stronger for the Combat 5.0m or 4.5m I would then jump on the E74. Do you think the sail sizing and type of sailing I am considering is an ideal for the K97 over the K87?

With regards to sticking with the E74 I am open for suggestions to help with setting up what I call my ultimate quiver. As mentioned above the EVO board would primary be used for my 5.0m and 4.5m. Updating the EVO is not out of the question.

Most of my sailing is still on the bay. From Bono to Mount Martha to Elwood to Rye to Greens Pt and then some times down at Pt Danger and Inverloch

Also is there any benefit to go wood over DRAM?
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Old 15th March 2007, 10:35 AM   #6
Ian Fox
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Hi Stephen,

Quote:
With regards to the ST115 what sail sizes would you suggest that would suit my weight and our sailing spot? I notice you also sail a ST on the bay, but I am not sure what size board and sails you use.
For your weight on the Bay, the ST 115, the sail size upper sweetspot limit is about 7.5m in "demi-slalom" mode and around 7m in "bump and blast"mode (a bit fin and stance/strap position variable). The 115 option definitely fills in the marginal seabreeze condition session, and will help make more of patchy Winter northerlies, BUT at the expense of being a bit bouncier in the Bay chop once it gets powered 6.7m or real 6.2 conditions..
So...the "ideal" choice here might also be influenced pretty heavily by what you decide for the mid size board...

Quote:
I also have an older 2003 model FreeFormula 137 that I use a V8 8.5m and V8 7.5m on, but when the wind gets up enough to use the ST104 I switch over very quickly as the ST104 is fantastic board and the bay gets a little bumpy for the FF137 at this point. I will be keeping the FF137 as I find it great board for those cruising days when you want to go any direction. Pity Starboard still doesn’t make them, as most of the guys down our way would buy them. Next season I will be looking at my sail I use for the FF137.
Right, on the Bay the FF137 is a really versatile light/mid wind option, and with something like that in your quiver, it's another reason to trend a bit smaller on the ST104 vs115 choice.. The FF morphed into the F-Type and then further into the light wind iS145/155, basic premise being most guys used/preffered the light wind back and forth drag race (slalom) character more than the upwind/downwind (FF/Ftype) performance.)

Quote:
With regards to going bigger on the ST; I was maybe considering going 7.2m, but I love the Saber 6.2m so much, I still want to use the 6.2m on the ST that I end up with. This is one of my concerns with going to a ST115. Also I would like to get back in to racing next season and the ST I end up with would be my weapon of choice and if the wind was real light I would go the FF137.
Ok, this is a valid choice, ST in either size grows more competitive on the Bay the more powered it is, it's not the ideal design to be trying to pinch upwind in marginal conditions c/w say iSonic, but ST is an easier speed option once it's filled in and the Bay is a mess)

Quote:
With regards to the K97; I would only use my Expression 5.7m for bay sailing and trying to learn freestyle and use my Alpha 5.3m for bay wave riding so to speak. When the wind gets stronger for the Combat 5.0m or 4.5m I would then jump on the E74. Do you think the sail sizing and type of sailing I am considering is an ideal for the K97 over the K87?
Yes, especially if the K in question is the mid size board, rather than the smaller/hi wind one. If it were one board to cover both K97+E74 range, then the K87 (allowing compromise on Freestyle potential) would be a more versatile one board +ST solution, and you can comfortably go from even K87 to ST104 or even ST115. As you intend to retain a dedicated hi wind (E74 etc), then you really need to max out the practcial range of the mid size, and that favours more bottom end option in K97 (which as above posts, kinda rates pretty special vs size) Chris is correct to discuss the Flares, but as you likely know they are not so readily available in AUS, and their fast, flat rockers are not ideal Bay "mush" type rides, even though the Flare is without question the prime choice for Freestyle action. BTW, as a total side option, there is only one Flare (an 06 Wood 94 http://2006.star-board.com/products/flare.asp ) available in AUS distribution stock - but that could be an option (and a value deal..check RPS) if you really wanted to explore the Freestyle focus route, sizing fits nicely betwen ST104/115 and E74, tricking potential and early planing better than K's albeit at the expense of better 4WD Bay mush (or wave) handling.


Quote:
With regards to sticking with the E74 I am open for suggestions to help with setting up what I call my ultimate quiver. As mentioned above the EVO board would primary be used for my 5.0m and 4.5m. Updating the EVO is not out of the question.
As you're pretty steady on that one at the moment, might be good to keep that and move the others. Longer term, for Bay (c/w ocean) waves, might want to consider the Pure Acid where the speed, acceleration and efficency(for wave board standards) make for an ideal hi wind B&J / rough water blasting solution)


Quote:
Most of my sailing is still on the bay. From Bono to Mount Martha to Elwood to Rye to Greens Pt and then some times down at Pt Danger and Inverloch
Quote:
Also is there any benefit to go wood over DRAM?
In general, the lighter weight and crisper ride is a big plus point with most riders. Usually no question, except for the price aspect. Probably more worthwhile in larger, lighter wind or performance boards than smaller hi wind B&J/wave boards, but even in those the difference is still notable.

I'd see correctly placing the new "mid range" board as the first step in refining the overall new quiver choice/s, so try and catch up with Peter, and if possible get a demo to see how the K97 rates with you.

Hope this helps answer the questions, but please let us know should you need more info !

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 15th March 2007, 12:46 PM   #7
PrydeMan
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Ian,

Thanks again. It’s good to talk this out with some one who knows and sails the same conditions as I. I am also emailing with Warwick from RPS about options too.

With my current 2005 ST104 I use the forward and inner footstrap settings, as I find it easier to sail on the bay and still maintain good speed.
You mentioned the ST115 and my weight on the bay may not suit real 6.2m conditions. This does concern me as the 6.2m is my favourite sail. I plan not to run anything smaller than the 6.2m on the ST, maybe the 5.7m for a race if the mid size board is not suitable for the type of race. Would running with footstrap in the forward and inner position as I currently do help with control on the bay?

Also the 2007 model ST104 states a lower size range compared to my 2005 model. Would the 2005 get going before the 2007 using a 6.7m based on stated ranges?

I will look in to the K97 as an option Warwick has one and he says his prime sail is 5.3m. I would like a board to try freestyle, but which ST I choose is most important as I sails the ST104 a fair bit this season.
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Old 15th March 2007, 04:50 PM   #8
Ian Fox
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Hi Stephen.

Just to clarify, the 6.2m will certainly still be well within the sweetspot of the ST115 for 80kg, just that if you average the 6.7 and 6.2, the ST that fits even better (moreso if you consider the lumpinesss of the Bay in 6.2 conditions Bay) is the ST104.

I guess one thing we didn't really identify is what style of riding you anticipate for the ST104 (replacement). If you're really using the SuperX potential to blast and jump and play around a lot, and riding it mainly in powered conditions then ST is the better choice for "easily" dealing with chop at speed - and in 6.2 conditions would be sweet- , but (especially if your mid size board creeps up the size/down the wind range abit more) if you're looking for more range and potential "race" performance for next season from the board in that slot, you might also want to think about iS101, which will definitely carry the larger 6.7m and even V8 7.5m nicely, while still not being too boat like for fun in 6.2 conditions (but not as jump proof as the ST). Yes, it is a more technical ride than ST, but especially as you would move (earlier) to the K97 (if that was the choice), the iS101 would be in practical limits..

Don't under estimate (without trying) the almost freeride ease of the iS101 when sailed in anything easier than "extreme 100Lt slalom" conditions. Again, demo should not be hard to arrange - and would be worthwhile even if you don't intend to go that way..

K97/80kg/Bay sweetspot peaks around 5.0 to 6.0m, certainly 5.3 is near the peak, but 5.8 is also exceptionally well suited (even for heavier guys) and 6.2 m is without question still absolutely within practical and fun K97 range... So you can sort of see where that is heading..

Quote:
Would running with footstrap in the forward and inner position as I currently do help with control on the bay?
Running Forward helps calm the board across chop, giving a setup that usually allows you to "power on" more over the rough stuff; the inboard setting gives a more reactive, moves type stance, whereas the outboard stance allows more leverage over the board/fin - which gives a more locked semi slalom stance. This can assist control in rough conditions, but make the ride more committed and demanding; with inboard straps you have less leverage over the board but the ability to ride (control) it in a more fluid, reactive wave like manner. On the Bay, in lighter conditions generally the outboard semi slalom stance works best, but as it chops up, the inboard is usually not a lot less effective, while being a lot more fun !

Quote:
Also the 2007 model ST104 states a lower size range compared to my 2005 model. Would the 2005 get going before the 2007 using a 6.7m based on stated ranges?
Those change more reflect our ongoing revision of the ideal "sweetspot" for each size as the model evolved, rather than significant variance in the planing threshold. If anything, with the newer flatter rocker the 2007 ST's will be going a little earlier.

If Warwick's got the K97, do the demo - and the iS101 while you're at it. One evening in decent rising seabreeze at Elwood should give you the verdict. At least for Round 1 !!

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 26th March 2007, 09:23 AM   #9
PrydeMan
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Default RE: Board(s) upgrade

Kevin,

I ended up getting a 2007 model ST115 (w), K97 (w) and I replaced the E74 with a E75 (t) at the same time.

Regards,
Stephen
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