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Old 10th July 2007, 06:23 PM   #1
slajder
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Default How to remove the integrated roll

Hi

I want to buy a North Natural from 2007 at size 6.2. I would use it for some bump&jump and freestyle tricks, my wife only for freeride in lighter winds.

But I hate the integrated rolls, I use always my pulley hooks, because the rigging is much faster this way.
The dealer said that the roll shouldn't be removed because there's no site (metal ring) to hook the pulley in. I only saw the sail in pictures, the manual tells that the roll can be easily removed.

Any experience? How about the sail in general?

Thanks
Leslie
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Old 10th July 2007, 10:32 PM   #2
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

Dont do it ! Integrated rollers are great.Stronger than your pulley and you can close boom up another couple of cm ! (Or mast ext. if you are talking DH)(The pulley length)
Quicker ? What 20 seconds ??? Gives you chance to check rope .
Integrated pulleys are stronger than cringles; let alone pulleys.!
I`d never remove mine.
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Old 11th July 2007, 03:30 AM   #3
slajder
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

Now it takes 2 seconds to put the pulley hook in the ring and pull the sail down. My hooks are extremely strong, for years no problem, all my sails are the same system except this North. My friend has an Instinct from 2005 with the integrated rolls, I am much faster at rigging, he must keep the extension pushed in the rolled sail at home to avoid the very slow and nerve-racking procedure at every windsurf day.
So I want to remove this damned roll, have you any idea?
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Old 11th July 2007, 08:53 AM   #4
steveC
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

Hi slajder,

Time has a way of introducing changes. Sometimes thinking differently is tough and not necessarily desirable. Nevertheless, you would better off working with a newer way of doing things, as most late model sails are designed around the hardware implemented to achieve optimum results. In reality, sail designers are improving the situation all the time, and we can readily leverage off that. Sometimes the concept of a minute or two spent in rigging details can offer significant benefits. I would recommend losing the hook, and ulltimately thinking more modern in your approach.

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Old 11th July 2007, 10:51 AM   #5
Roger
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

Hi slajder,
You could take your new North sail to a sail loft, and they can cut the integrated pulley off the tack of the sail and add a pressed in grommet
(like what your are accustomed to) but where will they put it?
The integrated pulley "system" is made to pull down your sail at the correct angle to load the lower panels correctly.
As far as the time it takes to thread 3 sheaves in your downhaul tackle, it shouldn't be anything more than about 30 seconds.
As to your friend having to put the extension in the bottom of the sail so he doesn't have to rethread the downhaul line, that's probably why it takes him so long to rig.
Leaving the extension attached to the sail so he does not have to rethread the downhaul is almost funny....
Can't be good for the sail, must make it a bitch to roll up and un roll, and it can't be good for the downhaul line.
I think you are going to have more problems deciding what mast base system (rollers across or rollers fore and aft) to use with your North Natural than you are going to have any problems with an integrated tack pulley.
Hope this helps,
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Old 11th July 2007, 11:51 AM   #6
slajder
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

That's great that so many wants to tell me the benefits of the integrated rolls... Unfortunately I'm a freestyle surfer, I prefer faster rigging (after work in the afternoon, after hours of waiting, when you know that the wind disappears with the sunset) than unbelievable accurate downhaul pulling, so I could try my maneuvers quicker. Beleive me, in that gusty lake no point to waste time with the benefits of the 2 cm I get closer to the mastfoot with the integrated rolls...

So, back to the problem, I watched that Instinct and realized that the rolls can be really removed. But how to hook in? I won't beleive that North meant to hook in in that cloth ring which pulled the rolls before... (I'm afraid yes...thus I let the rolls on, I use the sail this way and everybody gets happy except me)

here the link we are talking about
http://www.north-windsurf.com/technology/universal-trim-fitting.en
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Old 11th July 2007, 03:01 PM   #7
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

You won't do this probably, but how about changing your extension to one with Loop-to-go system, like North Sails PINLOCK XT extension.

It makes it super-easy: you form a simple loop, thread it through the two of three pulleys in the sail and then back on a extension pulley, which is open from one side (visible on the left side on the left picture or on the right side on the right picture, on a higher model of this extension).
http://www.north-windsurf.com/rig-components/pinlock-xt.en

You can arrange the line in the extension to keep the loop when not rigged and also have the end of the line cleated, so next time it's just a matter of threading a loop through the sail and back on the extension.

HTH.

-marek

P.S. With this system you don't use all the pulleys so you need more power to downhaul, not an issue. Of course you can always use it as any other extension, with all the pulleys.
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Old 12th July 2007, 01:42 AM   #8
steveC
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

Hi slajder,

If your married to the hook, all you have to do is temporarily remove the shaft to take off the brass rollers or sheeves and reinstall the shaft so that you can ultimately hook onto the shaft. However, the one thing that is hard to discern is whether the shaft is robust enough to handle downhaul forces over the long run. North seems to be suggesting that their design is up for the job, with or without the rollers in place. Really, only time will tell. In any case, you don't have to be unhappy.

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Old 12th July 2007, 03:03 AM   #9
Phill104
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

As steveC says, just remove the rollers and hook in. I have seen this done in the hire centre in Dahab where the sails are left permanently rigged so they seem to last.

My problem with the tack pulley system is that many extenstion have the pulleys in the wrong aspect for these. Gun seem to be the only brand that have the pulleys the same way around that they would be if a hook was used.
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Old 12th July 2007, 04:21 AM   #10
Roger
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Default RE: How to remove the integrated roll

Hi slajder,
The link you provided suggests:
"The rolls are easily removed for using a pulley hook. "
So, unscrew the axle, remove the 3 brass sheaves, and you are ready to go.
BUT, remember, your rigs aren't going to rig as low because the fitting to atach your pulley hook is now several incles lower in the sail (vs the old North System made for pulley hooks with the pressed grommet pretty high up in the sail.
Since the "integrated rollers" seem to be oriented fore and aft, if you change to a Streamlined "Quik 6" mast base, you can lace the pulleys in a few more seconds than it takes to attach the pulley hook to the grommet.
Use 4 mm Spectra line and you can "wrap" the 2 Quik 6" pulleys and a few seconds.
Or, have the foot of the sail cut like your older North sails and some reinforcements added so a grommet can be pressed in.
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