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Old 20th August 2007, 06:41 PM   #1
crazychemical
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Default 3 problems with new board

Hi Roger (and others),

i've finally had the good fortune of finding great winds for my new 113 L board and my 6.2. In Sicily i managed to blast for two days with that set but i ran into a few problems:
1) Jibing is not my most fluent move and i found myself in the water quite a few times when i tried to turn the board around (i did manage to do the laydown part of a laydownjibe and felt so proud :d) Now, the biggest problem i faced when waterstarting (i have to waterstart on a board of such volume because of my weight (90Kg)) i tended to drift with the current and with the wind as i caught it with my sail. Also my board automatically turned itself with it's tail towards me making my job not at all easier. Even though i never get into any trouble with it, it's rather annoying.
2) i, as many others, have problems going upwind with this board. I never had any such difficulties with the Go139 or at least i could compensate any drifting by just going upwind without planning. I can't on this board because i weigh to much and upwind without planning is a big nono if i want to keep this board floating. I can get the board planning but it starts going downwind with a smashing speed and by the time i get into my footstraps i'm blasting downwind and i can't alter the course enough to compensate for the lost terrain. I thus get pushed away from beginpoint A by X meters depending on the wind and on how much i managed to correct and when then going back to shore i lose another few meters and i end up at least 100 meters from point A whereas the other surfers just seem to go up and down without to much hasle.
3) That just about covers the problems i have during windsurfing. Now to another more specific issue: my dad, during our stay in Sicily wrecked two fins, one of which is was mine so he owes me one (haha!). Now for the Flow284 (113L board) which i used to gather the stories of the two problems above i was thinking of buying an extra fin. The current one is a G10 crossover fin, 31 cm long. I found that in the chop that fin was absolutely the right choice because i later discovered that fins that are to straight get too much pushed aside by the current (the Go139 with its 48 cm fin does not work well in chop at all, even with an overpowering sail i could barely get it planning whereas my dad with that same sail and a crossover fin on his big board kicked ass). However, my local spot is on a lake where there is like no current so i was thinking of a slalom/ride fin of 36 cm, would that be too much for rigs of 6.2 > ? or could i make it work you think?

thanks for input
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Old 24th August 2007, 08:25 PM   #2
Roger
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Hi Crazy Chemical,
Sorry for the delayed reply here, but I was "off the net" for a few days an having oversize valve installed in my heart and getting the other valves cleaned and inspected.
So, now I'm back and I will be working my way back up to speed.
Ok, glad to hear you found the conditions to get your 113 liter board going with the 6.2 m2 rig.
Here are your 3 questions (pasted in) and I will deal with each one in turn:
"1) Jibing is not my most fluent move and i found myself in the water quite a few times when i tried to turn the board around (i did manage to do the laydown part of a laydownjibe and felt so proud :d)"
Wow, working on your laydown jibes! Very cool!
Now, the biggest problem i faced when waterstarting (i have to waterstart on a board of such volume because of my weight (90Kg)) i tended to drift with the current and with the wind as i caught it with my sail. Also my board automatically turned itself with it's tail towards me making my job not at all easier. Even though i never get into any trouble with it, it's rather annoying."
If you are sailing where there is wind and current, and they both go in the same direction, staying upwind can be a problem. Mostly (if you are just sailing back and forth recreationally) you need to figure out which tack will keep you upwind the most, and then concentrate on really getting "on the fin" on that tack so you stay upwind.
As far as not falling in your jibes, that's pretty much "practice makes best" so spending lots of time on the water (TOW) and doing lots of jibes is the best way to get better at them. Maybe you are trying to advance to the laydown jibe a little too soon and need to work more on getting your "all the way around" carve jibe mastered.
As far as your board turning it's tail toward you on your waterstarts, that's a waterstarting/ how to steer the board with the mast foot issue and something you will get straightened out with more TOW on the new board.


"2) i, as many others, have problems going upwind with this board. I never had any such difficulties with the Go139 or at least i could compensate any drifting by just going upwind without planning. I can't on this board because i weigh to much and upwind without planning is a big nono if i want to keep this board floating. I can get the board planning but it starts going downwind with a smashing speed and by the time i get into my footstraps i'm blasting downwind and i can't alter the course enough to compensate for the lost terrain. I thus get pushed away from beginpoint A by X meters depending on the wind and on how much i managed to correct and when then going back to shore i lose another few meters and i end up at least 100 meters from point A whereas the other surfers just seem to go up and down without to much hasle."
I see this as 2 issues.........
#1 Staying upwind at sub planing speeds (it can be done by a 90 kg. sailor on a 113 liter board, but it's going to take a bit of a learning curve for you to figure out how much to tip your board (upwind rail down or lower than the lee rail) and how much you need to keep the rig raked forward to keep your sail powered up. Once again, TOW on this little board will have you sailing upwind with all the other sailors very soon.
#2 Staying upwind in fully planing conditions....you need to carefully consider how much power you have in your rig, how quickly you can get going out of your jibes, how much downwind you need to go to get your board "lit up" enough to sail upwind "on the fin".
Once again more TOW is going to give you better skills to match this smaller board to the conditions.
It will become pretty easy to head off, lite up your board onto a full plane, then gradually increase the fin pressure and railing of your board to take you upwind.
The technique here is going to be a little different than your GO139.

""3) That just about covers the problems i have during windsurfing. Now to another more specific issue: my dad, during our stay in Sicily wrecked two fins, one of which is was mine so he owes me one (haha!). Now for the Flow284 (113L board) which i used to gather the stories of the two problems above i was thinking of buying an extra fin. The current one is a G10 crossover fin, 31 cm long. I found that in the chop that fin was absolutely the right choice because i later discovered that fins that are to straight get too much pushed aside by the current (the Go139 with its 48 cm fin does not work well in chop at all, even with an overpowering sail i could barely get it planning whereas my dad with that same sail and a crossover fin on his big board kicked ass). However, my local spot is on a lake where there is like no current so i was thinking of a slalom/ride fin of 36 cm, would that be too much for rigs of 6.2 > ? or could i make it work you think? "
Well, good luck on "fixing" your dad. I could never fix my dad, and I doubt you'll have much success fixing yours. But, I agree, he does owe you a new fin.
As far as what fin to use, first remember that similar to Starboards the Mistrals are normally "slightly underfinned" with the stock fin.
You've been used to your GO 139 which actually has almost the perfect "all around" fin size with the stock 48 cm race fin).
So when you select another fin for your 113 L Flow, you can get better upwind (and early planing to some degree) performance by increasing the fin size/span or changing to a fin design (outline shape here) that's known to be better upwind, or both.
I'm not sure what to say about your statement that "fins that are to straight get too much pushed aside by the current (the Go139 with its 48 cm fin does not work well in chop at all". With proper technique, your can make any sort of fin work to keep you upwind, but the techniqes do change depending on if you are fully planing or not.
To say that the vertical race blade on your GO 139 gets pushed too much by the current suggests that you haven't quite figured out how to sail that board "on the fin"
I think an upgrade to a 36 cm (from a 31 cm) would be pretty good!
Hope this helps,
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Old 24th August 2007, 09:43 PM   #3
crazychemical
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Hi Roger,

I read about your hospitalisation, i hope it all went fine adn i wish you a speedy recovery. But don't push yourself (coming from a wannebe med student here! )

Thanks for the help on the subjects. I'll see this weekend if i can find any fins (I'm going to The Mission in Holland, don't know if you know of that event, it's my first time i'm going so i don't know wether i can buy stuff there) or at least check out some. I was thinking of the Select Ride 36 as its praised as a good slalom/freeride compromise.

As for the matter of the Go in chop, this is the situation: my dad uses a mistral Ntrance L (so a 220 liter board! 3 meters long and 90 cm wide, a giant platform to sail) However he bought himself a 36 crossover fin after wrecking the stock fin in sicily. We got to this place on the Calabrian shore where there was windsurfing going on and pretty good consistant winds. I first tried the flow with the 6.2 but i couldn't gt enough power out of the sail to get planning and waterstarts were exhausting so i switched o the 7.6 with the Go139 and the 48 stock fin, i go in and in the bay where the winds blew stronger i was really overpowered (once i got the sail tuned right, an arrows craze from 2004) and got planning, but i needed that bay wind which blew 3 knots stronger then the out of bay conditions. The chop was the same all over and so was the current, but once i got out of the bay (60 meters of sailing and you were on open water) the board, even downwind in full planning got pushed with it's nose into the wind and i lost speed, even with the perfect basic position i fell down in speed because of that turn. The waves were not even 70 cm high but the underflowing current was quite big so my guess was it was the fin. Now i do have a 40 cm select ride fin with more curve and which has never failed me with the smaller rigd (5.7>) but with the 7.6 i know i get spin outs (i tried in shallow water cuz the 48 was just too big, thats where dad ruined a 34 and a 28 fin, just to show u) so i desided not to rake the 40 cm fin and gave the sail to dad who was on the Ntrance (he likes the board, sails it in every condition, i'd see that guy doing wave riding with the Ntrance if i wouldn't stop him) on the crossover 36 fin (no brand, it was an epoxy fin which we got cheaply as a replacement fin) and he got planning in the bay and just kept going all the way till he desided he'd turn and go back. In my opinion that means there's something up with the fin because thats the only big difference between the two board and sailors (dad weighs 1 K less then me, and thez boardvolume is different but the length and width are simular) . What do you make of it?

Thanks Roger
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Old 24th August 2007, 09:49 PM   #4
crazychemical
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Small correction: the fin would be select S-ride 36. More direct curve, more slalom directed.
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Old 7th November 2007, 06:35 AM   #5
sam 2007
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Haiko,

Maybe I can return the favor of your advice about my tired arms.

With Roger's help I have found a method for going upwind that sounds goofy but works well when I'm not planing - I might need 3 or 4 knots more to get going. I used to try sinking the windward rail and using the nose to scoop upwind but that hardly ever worked.

What I do now is to point the board about 30 degrees upwind, stand close to the mast and keep the board flat side to side and front to back. The part that seems weird is how I sheet the sail in. I used to think that you sheeted in hard and leaned the sail back. Now I barely sheet in at all. I tried taking both hands off the boom but even that is oversheeting. So, I take my back hand off but keep my front hand on the boom. I pull gently with my front hand to keep the sail from oversheeting because it will just from harness pressure alone.

In summary point your board about 30 degrees upwind and keep it flat. Stand by the mast and sheet in very lightly. Try it when not planing.

When planing if you're not too powered up try pointing more upwind with the board flat but don't sheet in too hard. If you're really smoking, lean that sucker (the sail) back, sheet in fully and push on the fin with your back foot. Again point way upwind.

Let know me if this helps.

Sam
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Old 8th November 2007, 12:27 AM   #6
crazychemical
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that technique works fine with my GO139 but my flow284 sinks with my weight so i need to get planning asap else i drown but don't worry, i've been practising a lot on the upwind technique when i was in france. I used the same board as i have and a midget sail (it was blowing 32 knots :d:d:d) and managed just fine if my distance was good enough and if i dared to put more pressure on the side of the board and rely on the sail a bit more then with my Go.

cheers
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Old 21st June 2008, 06:04 PM   #7
crazychemical
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just a small add to this ancient thread:
i finally got to test the flow284 with my newly purchased select crossride 36 cm freeslalom fin and my craze 7.6. Amazing speed, early planning, a bit hard to controle in full speed but thats mainly because i hadn't adapted my footstrapsettings to the conditions (i only had a few hours and the wind was a bit flaky). All in all, a very good combo! The only thing is i managed to punch 4 holes in my monofilm and the luff is starting to show signs of extreme usage ... guess i know what my next purchase is ...

thanks for the advice roger!
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