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Old 8th October 2007, 01:57 AM   #1
MAS
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Default slow accelleration slow to plane 161

Hi Jean - Marc
I am a fast 161 100kg sailor. I usually blast past most people in the end, but my accelleration from the start is painfully slow. I sail on the sea, fairly rough 10 - 20 knots.
But I find when we all start I cant get the board up on the plane as quick as the others. I dont really want to pump my 10.5 race sail, but I have to pump really broad and unless the wind gets to 12knots I am stuck and the board wont lift.
I use a R19 +8 stiff which is great upwind but is seems very sticky and hard to get get planing.
If I use a R13 +6 soft then its easier to plane but I spin out easier and is not so good in light wind.

3 QUESTIONS

1. In 10knots what the best way to get the board to unstick and start planing?
2. When I am using the very stiff R19 in light wind I cant broad reach and stay in both front and back straps. why? I have to stand up and put the back foot in the middle of the board. If I use a soft R13 with +6 the I can broad reach in both straps easily. What should I do different on the R19.
3. When reaching very very broad (almost running) should I let the sail outline line all the way out?
4. At 100kg I never move the mast track back its always at the front. Is that right? (using 10.5 formula)
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Old 8th October 2007, 02:39 AM   #2
Sieger
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Rake your R13 Soft to rake 8+. That means you have to sand your fin. The fin in the front of the box is now about 5 mm. lower than the bottom of the board. This means you raked your fin for about 2cm more to +8. Move your masttrack position to the back.
My baseplate is till the bigger plug position. With rake 8+ you get more power in light winds.
Hope this help.

Sieger
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Old 8th October 2007, 03:01 AM   #3
MAS
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Hi Sieger
with the mast track back wont the board drag as I am 100kg? or do you think it would broad reach better?
How can I accelerate from stop better
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Old 8th October 2007, 08:37 PM   #4
Floyd
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I agree with you re mast position weight. I`m 102k and find in nearly every case board planes earlier with mast at front of track.
On question of early planing and early acceleration I have found exactly same.
Mates invariably plane off; accelerate to a good speed and initially leave me behind. As leg becomes longer I normally overall them.
I`ve studied trak logs for past 3 years and invariably compared to two sailing buddies (one at 75 k other at 85) I post lowest moving average but highest top speed.
I`ve messed about with sail sizes ; boards and technique but it still seems to hold true.
Perhaps we are trying to rewrite physics books.Heavier sailor is always going to have lower power to weight ratio but better power to drag .Hence ; slower acceleration but higher top speed.
If I rig up to match mates initially I soon get overpowered.(And then v max suffers; control problems)
Think its a case of accepting our differences. Lighter sailor is always going to pull away inititially ; all things being equal.Play to your strengths.
Lighter sailors will always tell you you can carry a bigger rig you can but only upto a point.
Good luck.
Look at weight of all top speed sailors ! 104 k is perfect.
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Old 9th October 2007, 02:32 AM   #5
mark h
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Hi MAS
Get a bunch of formula guys/girls together & theres always a big difference in what works and what does'nt work. I guess theres no silver bullet or magic formula. For me (107kg & 192cm), I always have the mast foot as far back as I can get it (be it 9m,11m or 11.9m), I find that I can get more drive on the fin for early planning in super light winds, also, its easier to stuff the nose off the wind to get going earlier and increases acceleration loads (not to mention faster top end). Also try increasing your harness line lengths quit a bit, again it will be easier to drive the board broad. Also try a wider footstrap setting, will make going real broad more comfy. You wont get extra drag if you try these things. Doing these things gets me going easily in around 7 to 9k with an 11m and I dont feel like I have much (if any) disadvantage with the light weight formula guys.

http://www.gps-speedsurfing.com/gps....=18927&uid=960

Cheers
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Old 9th October 2007, 02:51 AM   #6
MAS
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Hi Mark H
great to hear from u. U R the same size as me so first question is where do u get ur wetsuits. Poxy xxl dont fit me and I aint fat. Which manufacturers suit do u use!
2. What ur saying about the mast foot I will try, because I remeber in long board racing years ago I watch Julian Anderson annilate a IMCO field in 6 knots. Some of the guys were 60kg but he had is mast track half way back in fcuk all wind. He pumped the whole circuit and planed all the way round. I asked him why he had the track back and he gave the same reason as u. He said a quick pump allow the nose to come up the he could float out to the edge of the board and try to keep it up on the plate.

2. Yes I am trying the long harger harness line boom to shoulder/chin to allow the board to rise.

3. I will adjust the rear straps because u r correct I cant twist enough to force to nose round to broad reach.
What fin R U using and which 11M sail R U using?
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Old 9th October 2007, 02:38 AM   #7
MAS
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thanks Floyd
U R 100% correct, but I think us heavy guys can improve acclleration enough to give the light weights a good race, so I am hoping a pro has the answer.
1. Mast foot - U and I are definately correct in marginal conditions with a 100kg at the back the rear sinks and the board planes at the wrong angle so thats not the answer.
2. When I lost 5 kg in weight during the early summer, the board definately plane for longer and quicker in marginal conditions. My weight was 95kg. That weight will plane with a 10.5 in 10 knots of wind if u keep out of the straps, raise the boom to chin height and hang. I have to keep on my toes to allow the board to rise out of the water. At 100kg I cant get the board to do that anymore.
3. I am wondering if in marginal conditions u use a soft 70cm fin run off downwind (easier to do with a soft fin) then hopefully come back up on the plane to winward.
There must be other tricks the pro's use because they all seem to accelerate quick on the videos!
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Old 9th October 2007, 01:52 PM   #8
barks
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I can't help but think that you're still running your boom way too low. I'm 190cm and never run the boom at chin height unless I'm very powered up/overpowered on my 9.5, and buy then it's 22-24 knots or so. I never run the boom at shoulder height, once I'm hiked out in the straps that is way too low to be able to transfer enough weight onto the rig. With my 11 and 12 (and I'm NOT on 11 in 10knots if I can help it) I run the boom somewhere between eye level and forehead level, i.e. a 10-15cm higher than chin. Try running your boom at eye level or so and really concentrate on getting as much of your weight as possible transferred through the rig and mast joint instead of through your feet during pumpung and acceleration.

At your weight (I'm "only" 95) it's extremely important getting your weight onto the rig for planing and acceleration, and that's pretty hard with the boom too low.

Another thing is that not really having great acceleration with a 10.5 for a 100kg rider is not really that weird. If you look at a regatta field in 12knots there's not a whole lot of people on 10.5's in 12 knots, and definitely not anyone at 100kg. I think the main problem may be that you're really underpowered a lot of the time. That may also lead you to rigging your 10.5 (guesswork, I know) for power instead of speed/stability like you normally would a formula sail. I would believe that an 11/11.5 would give you more power and better acceleration, while also allowing you to rig the sail with enough twist/release to have great top-end in 20knots at your weight.

Personally I prefer to stay on my 12 (Vapor) until the wind is at least 14 knots, from 14 solid/even knots my 11 starts to catch up, but not before. The 12 gets going a little earlier, and definitely accelerates better and points a lot higher once planing at those windspeeds.
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Old 10th October 2007, 05:44 AM   #9
MAS
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Hi Barks
You are correct when you say I am using the boom too low on the formula in light winds because on the downwind leg (broad reaching very broad) I feel very uncomfortable because I cant get the backfoot pulled under me and I cant push the front away enough to keep the board broad and be comfortable, so I will raise the boom as you say around eye level. I have tried it, and it is uncomfortable because you cant really cop out when u r knackered and get in the harness lines too early. The other thing is I generally hate long harness lines, but I will persevere, because unanimously all the threads agree a formula rig boom should be around eye level.
Regarding the rigs - I only have a 10.5 as my max sail - due to lack of finance - As u know 11.5 means new mast new sail and another boom really - so as you say I will have to accept I am under powered. The thing is I am comparing with lighter Guys with 10.'s so i guess the physics laws rule. You have made my mind up anyway, If I replace the rig it will be 11.0 and the next change is 9.0.
I can afford them new but I guess next year used versions will be cheaper. What do u thing of the new NP RS Racing?
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Old 9th October 2007, 09:19 PM   #10
mark h
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Hi MAS
Same here, I'm not fat either. I'm using NP XXXLT (euro 56 tall size). I think they have stopped making this size now. I just got the last 2007 Series 5000 drysuit a couple of weeks ago. Solar and Spartan do a good cut XXXL range.

I'm using a C3 Bravo 70 in light stuff, sails are 2005 NS Warps. Boom should really be eye to nose height in light winds, chin height in mid winds and just above shoulder height in high winds (but by then I'm usually on something sleeker, unless I get caught out).

Cheers
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