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Old 28th May 2008, 01:27 PM   #1
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Default Looking for a 5.5-6.0 Freestyle sail that gets planning me like in 6.5 to 7.0 sail

Hi,
considering the freestyle boards around 100 liters are not fast boards but very maneovrable...I have start liking freestyle dont matter I go slower than a Formula or Slalom in 14 knots...

I am on spocks, Grubbies, forwards and all that stuff, etc...and want to sail with a medium size sail but with very very early planng ability.

Is this possible? well, now the Glide 8.5 works good and maybe have power as a 9,5-10.0 sail for racing and cruising.

Why not a freestyle sail in moderate size to use it with a wave boom (usually goes to almost 200cm) and 430 mast. Say, I think a 5.8 can be the choice. And this with planning ability of at least 6.8. If you can reduce in a few knots the need of wind for freestylers...then freestyle will go up very very fast, no matter the sail is not as perfect in power as a dedicated 16knots plus sail.

I use in very light winds a Gator 6.5 for freestyle and perform all this maneouvers, and have fun, but I think using a 460 mast and Slalom boom makes all the rig heavier and despite its bigger and more power...weight is reducing a bit my planning ability.

Hey, why dont someone make a sail for this, or does anyone can make a CUSTOM one for me?
Maybe a "FREE FULL POWER 5.8" model? hehe


Thanks
Ricardo Guglielmino
rgugli@hotmail.com
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Old 28th May 2008, 10:05 PM   #2
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Default do those exist?

Only sail I can possibly think of would be the sailworks hucker. The 5.6 apperently pulls with a lot more force than a regular 5.

Don't know how a tight leech and higher center of effort would fell like freestyling though
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Old 28th May 2008, 10:24 PM   #3
crazychemical
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gaastra remedy 6.0. These sails are built to keep you powered up but they still have a small enough boom to do tricks on them.
I also myself have an older NP Soul 6.2 freestyle sail and in powered up conditions with chop on my 113 this sail is perfect, it has big speed and can pull me out of the water for waterstarts. i suspect it's decendents (NP expression i think) has simular qualities. I got to test the expression 6.9 2005 version in leucate once but with a bad mast and boom so i didn't quite get the feel from it, but it got me going from around 15 knots up to 23 knots easily before i got too overpowered to sail it, and even then i just brought it in because by then i had broken my board, i think i could have pulled it up to 25 knots of wind.
I never tried any sailworks but from what i hear they are good. Though personally i'm a gaastra fan because of they userfriendly feel.

hope this helps
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:42 AM   #4
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I will make my question clearer...considering there are sails actually with more power than others (like the ones you mentioned), I would like a sail that have the power to do the same than THOSE POWERFULL actually existing sails with 2 knots less.

Say, if with the actual POWERFULL SAILS for freestyle I can get out and have fun in 14 knots, I would like to see the chance to go freestyling in 12 knots with the same size about 5.8 sail.

I think sounds weird my idea, but I also remember 1998 when saying planning in 7 knots was impossible...after a few years the Formula boards came and wind planning need was reduced in 2 knots just changing the board design. And let me say that the first time I tried the Formula wide boards (85cm at that time) I was planning as with the race small boards but with a different feeling. I am not looking to keep the same exact feeling of an actual freestyle sail with a super powerfull say, just wondering if this is possible and in case is possible...try the feel and check if i prefer that feel having the advantage of sailing with 2 knots less (maybe 10% more days in my 3 hours drive by car spot and maybe 50% more days in my 10 minute drive by car spot ).

Ricardo
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Old 29th May 2008, 01:41 PM   #5
PG
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The most powerful sail in the 6 m2 range is probably the Severne Gator. It has at least got rave reviews for early planing.
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Old 30th May 2008, 10:38 PM   #6
jonthesailorman
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I asked Taty a question regarding some differences in freestyle sails he's used. Heres what he had to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taty Frans View Post

The Echo's is basically a pure freestyle sail, before I change to Mauisails I have helped design the 2004 echo's.. If you remember they where already 4 battens. the 5.2 5.6 6.0 where great sails. very light, short boom, and handling was very easy and doing tricks was very easy. I still believe these sails are the best freestyle sails I have helped design and sailed with untill now.


So the loco's are basically the same concept as the echo's but with a slightly better planing ability. the power of the sail is more improve. so this get you going in the lighter winds. and it's a 5 batten freestyle sail.

If you need to compare the (2008) Echo's V.s The (2008) Loco.

I would say that the Echo's have been getting shorter at boom, the sail feels very light and small, like when I sailed with Kiri 4.8 echo I felt like I was sailing with a slightly smaller sail. but that's great because it make's you go for every moves.

On the loco's 4.8 it kinda have the same feeling of the Echo BUT the loco have a better planing ability. that's what I like better then echo's.
When I was on Mauisails I used to sail with a smaller size of sail then Tonky, like if Tonky is on a 5.2 I was on the 4.8. I could have even use almost use the same sail sizes that kiri is using at a windy day.

To tell you the truth I have never really sailed with the 5.6 Loco on Bonaire because the 5.2 was enough.

Taty Frans NB-9
hope Taty doesn't mind me posting this. I found it useful I think you will too. I've been ridding on mauis for a while now. I use a 6.4 to get going really early in stupid light wind, 12 knots is possible. I'll use the 5.6 in about 16. they also come in 6.0

p.s. stay clear of huckers for freestyle. They are REALLY HEAVY!
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Last edited by jonthesailorman; 30th May 2008 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 12:37 PM   #7
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I think Ricardos question is different than the answers received, and as I understand, the question might be:

considering the Sailworks Tucker and the Maui Sails Loco, that are between different opinions the early existing freestyle sails...what about designing a sail that planes 2 knots less than them? or who can design for him a freestyle sail that planes 2 knots before them.

Making more obvious the question:

who can design a Tucker or Loco 5.8 that carries the planning ability of a Tucker or Loco 6.7, that maybe will carry the power of a 7.0 "average sail".

Looks like he is really serious about pushing freestyle and the idea looks good for me too.

Luke Joy
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Old 4th June 2008, 08:24 PM   #8
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I've put a lot of thought into this idea myself a little while back. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way a lot of the time. The reality of it is that sails that are built like the Hucker are (i.e. super tight leech), feel like they have loads more power than a sail of equal size. In fact they feel like they offer power equivalent to sails a full meter up in size. The truth of it though can be found in our formula friends in form of a clever phrase, "there is no replacement, for displacement". Granted this idea is used a bit differently by them but it has merit throughout the sport. It doesn't matter what sail size you are using, if you don't have enough wind for it, your not going anywhere. Now I'm not saying that 5.8 Hucker-esque freestyle sail wouldn't plane up more quickly then sails of a similar size, but I am saying that that it wouldn't plane up faster than a larger, 6.5ish early planing sail. I've seen it first hand. There has been many days were I was getting going most of the time on my 6.4 Loco popin' freestyle everywhere, and the local Hucker guy rigged up his 5.6 and didn't get going at all. Not even once. You like he'd learn. And further more, the sail properties that make a Hucker a Hucker are not properties I would look for in a freestyle sail. Huckers work the way they do because of a super tight leech and a full power outline. Sails like this don't neutralize super easily, full power outline makes them more difficult to toss around. Having a fat sail foot provides low end power, but is very difficult to get around for rig ducking. The super high tension gives a tight leech, but needs heavy reenforcement to hold it together during abuse. This also makes a sail feel very heavy, not what you need for freestyle. I think the current freestyle sails out there right now fit the bill, and that a little bit a looking is all your going to have to do to find the right one for you. Thats just my 2cents though.
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Old 4th June 2008, 11:04 PM   #9
Roger
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Hi Jon,
You are correct, the Sailworks Hucker probably is not the best
"freestyle" sail, for many of the reasons you suggest, but
as far as "early planiing power" comparing a 5.6 m2 Hucker to your
6.4 Loco isn't a very valid comparison.
Also is your "local Hucker guy" fully cognizant of the wide range of ways you
can enhance or reduce the power in the Hucker sails by using different masts?
If he was to use a soft (Powerex wave 430 RDM) mast in his 5.6 m2 Hucker, he would get lots of top twist.
Change the mast to a Sailworks 430 Backbone RDM and the top of the sail tightens up significantly.
Use the mast the sail was designed for (Sailworks 430 Joystick 430 SDM) and you get a tight leech up in the top and a very deep foil down low.
Change again to a Sailworks Backbone 460 RDM and you get a lean/mean slalom foil with a slightly loose leech up top, but still some power up there as well.
So, I don't think comparing a 6.4 Loco to a 5.6 Hucker is really valid unless you use the entire range of masts.
I think I you compared the 6.6 m2 Hucker to your 6.4 Loco the outcome would be very different.
I can rig the 6.6 Hucker to get planing at about the same threshold as the 7.5 Retro.
Hope this helps,
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Old 5th June 2008, 07:43 AM   #10
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Default Clinton Filen? Ben Severne? any other sail designers out there??

Hi guys, I still think the original idea can be possible. We have genious behind our sport-

we have got to a final statement...its possible to have loads of power but maybe its not the best for freestyle (weight, handling, durability ect.)

Anyway, it still think its possible and answer as: YES, this sail planes 2 knots earlier than any other sails in the Freestyle range of all companies.

Remember back when people said...its impossible to have a board planning in 7 knots...when they finally appeared, they said...but they wont be fast as the normal ones. After a few years...we know that all race guys switched to Formula type boards as they got planning in 2 knots less than usual and were faster than the previous ones.

Hope Clinton or Ben can comment on this...or maybe a guy like Barry that sometimes get on this Forum.

I still think that as the Formulas appeared, as the Glide appeared...I think is possible to have a Freestyle sail that planes 2 knots less than a Hucker in the same size and with the best mast combination for early planning.

THats it...any brilliant ideas?

Marc
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