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Old 19th June 2008, 03:37 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Why only 1 board for olympics

Windsurfing is a sport like sailing it has many different disciplines.

In the olympics sailing has a range of boats to represent the sport.

So why can't windsurfing have the same.

For sure Starboard have the range of boards. eg.. Serenity( Americas Cup style ), Phantom Race for triangle style racing and formula for pure speed.

Why not.......


Russell
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Old 19th June 2008, 05:16 PM   #2
RobSwift
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We're lucky that it is included as a sailing event.
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Old 23rd June 2008, 12:51 PM   #3
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Because there is just a limited number of medals for all sailing sports in Olympics.

Windsurfing i guess have 2 medalls asigend, and they are given to RSX men (one) and RSX women (the other).

Supposing we want to include Serenity sailing or Freestyling or Slalom, we need to have more medals to give...and that will mean to find 2 medals of ISAF for this. Asumming the number of medals for "sailing sports" is limited, we need to find the way to take medals from other sailing spots to add them to windsurfing. I see that difficult because Olympics try to have most represantive sports in Olympics.

Yes, its possible, but also its difficult and other sailing sports can consider also to have those medals asigned to other sailing sports waiting for medals to be considered Olympic sports.

Best regards,
Ricardo Guglielmino
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Old 23rd June 2008, 07:54 PM   #4
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Why worry about windsurfing at the Olympics at all, it does nothing for the sport. Why should such a minority sport be in it? I hate to say it but when there were longboards i.e IMCO there were big fleets numbers world wide and therefore a justified Olympic class. I loved my IMCO once, now I'm into slalom on those windy days.

If your idea worked Russell then there might be some hope for WS at the Olympics, however I fear the ISAF is nearly null & void or IS-A-Farse.
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Old 23rd June 2008, 10:07 PM   #5
sergio k
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having multi medal windsurfing events at the olimpics is out of the dream world, we're
we are a small sport, what would be ideal for couse racing is to actually use a real class,
that's established and works, to participate in olimpics, and not one design, one manufacturer, instead of FOD , have just FW,
just like in other sports like skii, biking, etc... where compatitors free to choose any
brand
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Old 23rd June 2008, 11:12 PM   #6
Ken
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I like what Sergio says, but we are dealing with "sailing" and the Olympics. While I don't know about all of the Olympic sailing classes, I am guessing that they are ALL one design. If this is true, there is no way they will allow windsurfing to go to a class like Formula with multiple manufacturers. It's just not consistant with the other sailing classes.

While the value of Olympic windsurfing for the rest of the windsurfing world may not be great, it doesn't hurt. If it wasn't there, then what? Would we be better off? We are lucky to be involved at all, so why not take advantage where we can.

I think we do what we are doing, try to come up with something that the ISAF will buy into and also makes sense for the rest of the world wide windsurfing community. A difficult challenge at best.

Last edited by Ken; 24th June 2008 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 24th June 2008, 01:20 AM   #7
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Only Laser/Radial and RSX are really ONE DESIGN . The others are BOX RULE classes, more than one brand produces the boats.
Star have Lilia, Mader etc etc etc.
470, Yingling, Tornado, Finn all have more than one boat builder too. The same with sails, you can use whatever sail brand you want to, except those classes.
I agree when Sergio says that Olympics do nothing for the sport and I don't think windsurfing needs to be at Olympics at all.
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Old 24th June 2008, 01:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Only Laser/Radial and RSX are really ONE DESIGN . The others are BOX RULE classes, more than one brand produces the boats.
Star have Lilia, Mader etc etc etc.
470, Yingling, Tornado, Finn all have more than one boat builder too. The same with sails, you can use whatever sail brand you want to, except those classes.
I agree when Sergio says that Olympics do nothing for the sport and I don't think windsurfing needs to be at Olympics at all.
I never wrote 'that Olympics do nothing for the sport ', I think we get some visibility
and respect from general public, and I'll take it over 'nothing', we need to grow our sport;
But we would get so much more bang for the buck if we have real class like FW,
FOD is a step in the right direction-but still a big compromise...
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Old 24th June 2008, 05:05 AM   #9
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Ken,
With the Formula Windsurfing concept they already do this. Box Rule means that you have some limits in lenght, width, weight, etc, and you have to produce a boat (or a board) inside this limits.
Star boats and all the other box rule Olympic classes don't have the same specs, acttualy some guys are developing boats specificaally for the very light wind conditions they expect in China. You have also sails for light, medium and strong winds in all those box rule classes, those sails must be inside the rule limit.
Basically is almost the same with FW, you have F2, Exocet, Starboard, Mike's Lab, etc producing boards inside the FW limits, and have 3 rigs from any brand you want inside the rule.
Sergio,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Unregistered said that the Olympics do nothing for the sport.
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Old 24th June 2008, 05:40 AM   #10
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"Only Laser/Radial and RSX are really ONE DESIGN . The others are BOX RULE classes, more than one brand produces the boats.
Star have Lilia, Mader etc etc etc."

Sorry, that's wrong.

The 470 class rules say (second line) that "the 470 is a One-Design racing dinghy....". The Tornado class rules say (first line) "This is a one-design class". The Yngling can only be built from moulds that were taken off the master plug; it's a one design according to the class itself. The 49er and Finn are OD classes, according to the class associations, the designers, ISAF and the terms of the competitions from which they were selected. The Star is a one design class.

You can go back as far as the 1950s book by George Elder (who started the Star class association way back in 1922) for an explanation of how a boat can be a one design and still allow some latitude. Basically, with the one designs someone actually designed a physical boat (Cornu for the 470, March for the Tornado, etc) and the class association then allows SOME latitude, historically because no two things produced by mankind are 100% identical. Even the Laser and RSX allow some latitude (a few grammes in weight, etc).

Some OD classes have bigger variation than others, but that doesn't make them development or box rule classes. The "box rule" classes are ones like A Class cats, where they basically say that a boat has to fit within certain dimensions (sail area, length etc).

So why are the Olympic classes now all ODs? They started off with no ODs, but the fact is that Olympic classes that are not OD become extremely expensive. It's almost impossible to write class rules that allow manufacturers to compete to build boats without allowing them to try to find a tiny advantage to give them a competitive edge.

The classic example is the mast the British built to incredibly high tolerances for the slow 11' Europe dinghy; they milled down a one-tonne block of solid alloy to make a mandrel, then made the mast in carbon to designs tested in a wind tunnel, then sanded it down from the inside.....do you think that was cheap? Rich countries can easily out-spend small countries and get a big advantage. Is that fair?

And sometimes you end up with one builder dominant (like Marstrom in the Tornado) so you end up with effectively only one supplier anyway. But basically, why not make it a sailor versus sailor race; why make it a sailor+builder+designer+pit crew+manufacter race?

"not one design, one manufacturer, instead of FOD , have just FW,
just like in other sports like skii, biking, etc... where compatitors free to choose any
brand"

Bike racing's way could be the wrong way. A huge number of people ride bikes. Compared to sailing, only a tiny proportion of those who ride bikes (even performance bikes) compete on their bikes. If it comes to encouraging people to compete, then sailing's way is much, much better.

Windsurfing tends to follow the multi-manufacturer model, and the number of people who race is just minute compared to the one-design (or rating) model followed by boat sailors - despite the fact that there are far fewer classes for it to compete against, FW sells less than a third as many each year as the Laser does.

It seems a bit weird to say "our way is the best" when the facts are so harshly against it. And where in the world is the fun and challenge of beating someone simply because you have purchased better gear?
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