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Old 17th August 2009, 11:52 AM   #1
Screamer
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"Starboard iSonics took the top 3 places of the PWA Overall Slalom ranking in 2008. Over the last two seasons, every event was won on an iSonic, under the feet of Kevin Pritchard, Bjorn Dunckerbeck and Antoine Albeau. Antoine never won a single PWA Slalom event until he switched to iSonics. Bjorn hasn't won a single event since then either, until he too switched to iSonics last August." etc.....

Is it just me, or this sound a bit ..... strange (to say it politely).

Don't get me wrong, I like Starboard boards, and use 3 at the moment, iS is one of them. But they are still using ex team rider AA in their marketing? Let's see:

1. Not one pwa event this season was won "on iSonics under the feet of Starboard riders"
2. AA is consistently beating everyone on JP boards (I guess he would do the same on ANY boards)
3. Bjorn is far from his old "terminator" self. He will fight for third this year.
Facts.

I can easily see how some sailors can be put off by the above (and this is from an old Starboard customer).
The results aren't speaking for themselves any more.
So tone it down, please.
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Old 17th August 2009, 03:06 PM   #2
Floyd
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There has always been a tendency for Starboard to be optimistic with their claims; I really dont think they have to be this way at all. Their products (and results) can speak for themselves. Read through website and there are other examples.IMHO its becoming damaging to Starboard. Agree with Screamer totally.
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Old 26th August 2009, 03:21 PM   #3
ogie1154
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There has always been a tendency for Starboard to be optimistic with their claims; I really don't think they have to be this way at all. Their products can speak for themselves. Read through website and there are other examples.IMHO its becoming damaging to Starboard. Agree with Screamer totally.
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Old 17th August 2009, 03:15 PM   #4
viking
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This has been already widely debated in the "July 1st" topic

When I read the post from Screamer, it looks that many people have been shocked by the "AA has never won before joigning Starboard" that was totally inadequate and insulting for a great Champion. But OK, it was a mistake and I think it won't be repeated in the future.

But glad to see that windsurfing is a sport where it is still the rider that makes the result!
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Old 18th August 2009, 02:49 PM   #5
Floyd
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Just a mistake !!! No it was BS !!! But you are right Viking ;no problem we should be used to it.Our sport is full of it !!!

Boards that cant be measured objectively; stats that are wrong; sail sizes that are wrong. Corrupt magazines/tests/advertising.Year on year claims for improved kit. List is endless !!!

Its exactly the reason why so few people are coming into the sport. They think they just have to buy so much gear !!!! Look on some posters list of "Toys" on end of posts on threads. Whats that about. ???
BS
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Old 18th August 2009, 05:05 PM   #6
mim
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Hey Floyd,

the marketing is a bit too much I agree. But i wanted to make a small note on the list of the material of some posters...

I added it that everybody can see what I am riding and if anybody is interested in my opinion on what I ride he can contact me directly and not write post on please help on this and that...because there is at least every week a new thread asking a question that has already been answered many times.

So that was just shortly why to mention what toys each one of us is actually riding...just that you can know how relieble are the answers.

Have a good day on the water!
Ciao Michal.
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Old 18th August 2009, 06:32 PM   #7
Floyd
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Thumbs down

Mim
Manufacturers realised years ago there was just not the mass market to sell us just one or two boards.They actively promote us to buy as many as possible and as frequently as possible. (look at Quad revolution !!!Twinzers last year !!!) To my mind some of us just play straight into this and then actively promote the situation by listing "The Toys" on here. I`ve been posting on here years and it was the sponsorerd sailors who started the trend; and for a reason.To normalise owning 5 boards !!! Great marketing!!!
Its exactly why there are so few newcomers to sport !!!
Newcomers look at investment/return ratio and go away and buy a jetski !!! Its cheaper !!!
Have you seen what second hand boards are worth !!!(Not worth really)
I came to WS (in 1981) to get away from complexity of racing dinghies. We now have more kit than any racing dinghy.
Fine if it suits you but its just not relevant to be publishing all your "toys" on here.
Its just another part of the hype/BS.. We just play our part like good consumers without even realising we are been manipulated.

As I said our sport is endemic with BS...

Do you really need 5 boards to get max TOW/enjoyment ???

The boards we own/sail have nothing to do with the accuracy/helpfullness of posts ???
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Old 18th August 2009, 09:51 PM   #8
mim
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Exclamation

Well,

I will just correct some points here.

I made the decision to buy the boards and I paid them. On the other hand...I am not so stupid to buy any new in the next few years.

Secondly...I know a lot of people new to windsurfing some of them tried it once with me and they do not share my policy and they are the typical one or two board surfers...and that is allright (in fact I am minority around here at my place)...I have more TOW because of my biggest slalom boards...and I would say factor 2 more (excluding holidays where you usualy rent material)

The smallest slalom I have I had on the water not so often at home...but once I go for a trip it is the most ridden board...because I go where the wind blows (and suprisingly I like riding slalom boards...and i know it because for two years I were on freerider on holidays and I just find the feeling different and the slalom one I like a bit more).

The PureAcid...that is the only bad choice I did about a board...I would have the range covered with the EVO easily...but I bought the evo after PA as soon as I realised I can't ride the PA so often...and as you said to sell it it would be a big economical loss for me so why would I do it?

And If you don't like the list of my toys...it is your problem! I like my boards, all of them ... I find them extremely expensive but right now I have the money and in a pretty short time I will not...so I rather bought them when I had ebough and when there is not enough I will stick with necessary minimum.

And finally I mostly do agree with you in the marketing problem...but your arguments on newcomers are wrong...usually you do not start a sport because you decide to...someone have to introduce you...your friend, parents, TV spot or I don't what...

If you see children or young people taking courses on some big rental places...surely nobody is telling them...hey try it but be aware that you will have to own 5 boards...my personal opinion is that the sport is way more difficult than other...just like kitting...every kiter tells you after a weekend course of kitting you can ride both directions (planning speed) and make turns...when you think about windsurfing you will be very good to learn it in two weeks (and it is extremely optimistic...and people does not have the patience) and for learning you must have a big board...and when I was talking about my friends (one board surfers)...they all have 100-110 liter boards...for a beginer forget it!!!

I know one (he has a patience problem)...learned on a big board (180 liters) and as he got back from haliday...without asking he bought a board 110 liter...I was with him once on the water...after 10 minutes he gave up...this is not about the what you are trying to tell me.

--> JETSKI is easy, windsurfing is a hell of a different story, and that is what it makes good!

PS: by the way what it is that you want more people in windsurfing...I find the sport absolutely the best when the beach is not crowded at all...friend yes but only a couple of them!

Ciao Michal.
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Last edited by mim; 18th August 2009 at 09:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 18th August 2009, 10:35 PM   #9
Floyd
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Mim
Calm down !!!
Nobody said anything about not liking your boards our asking you to justify your choices. I have one of boards mentioned !!! And lots more besides.
Point is why on earth do folk have to proclaim it to rest of world.????
Are your answers any more relevant if you own a Isonic ??? Of course they are not. You are simply continuing a tradition started by Starboard themselves !!!
Sport has developed to point where we need a different board (or Starboard like us to think we do) for every windstrength and water condition; and if you dont do this you are missing out on some aspect. Which is BS.

Its becoming almost a fashion item !!!!

Shall I list my wetsuit and fins and booms ??? And my 17 sails ????

Its merely another example of BS the sport can well do without !!!!

Toys
GasGas 300/Westfield Sport/Fireblade ????? Oh and a cart load of winndsurf gear dating from 1987 to present !!!! Including a couple of Starboards !!!!
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Old 26th August 2009, 05:56 AM   #10
Jean-Marc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Fine if it suits you but its just not relevant to be publishing all your "toys" on here.
Its just another part of the hype/BS.. We just play our part like good consumers without even realising we are been manipulated.

As I said our sport is endemic with BS...

Do you really need 5 boards to get max TOW/enjoyment ???

The boards we own/sail have nothing to do with the accuracy/helpfullness of posts ???
Floyd,

Looks like you're a fan of *B marketing conspiracy theory or what ? Please find below some of my answers to your *B BS claims as follows:

1) As a consumer, I never felt being manipulated by *B to buy their board. Nobody puts a gun over my head to buy their gear. It has always been my free choice to buy all the gear I wanted for what purpose I intended to do. Moreover, I do not agree at all that our windsurfing sport is endemic with BS. For example, you cannot go wavesailing with a Serenity obviously...!

2) Do I need 5 boards to get max TOW ? Yes if considering max TOW as getting maximum performance as of 2 knots of wind up to 45 knots, from dead flat water up to 2 m high swell:
- Acid 62 covers wind range 20-45 knots with 3.3-5.4 m2 sails for wave sailing and hardcore freeriding;
- Kombat 86 covers wind range 12-25 knots with 5.4-6.9 m2 sails for freeriding and light wind wavesailing;
- iSonic 53 speed covers wind range 12-22 knots with 6.6 & 7.7 m2 sails for speedsailing;
- Hypersonic 105 covers wind range 7-15 knots with 8.2 & 11 m2 sails for slalom and mini-formula sailing;
- Serenity covers wind range 2-7 knots with 11 m2 sail for ultra light wind cruising and long distance racing.

Do I want to go back to my first 1980 windsurfer in order to get the same max TOW as that of today? No way, that's BS all the way ! That antique barge had a ridiculously tiny wind range and sloppy performance.

3) "The boards we own/sail have nothing to do with the accuracy/helpfullness of posts".

Really? Sorry Floyd, it does matter simply because you don't know what you're talking about if you don't have at least tested such boards first hand. Let me show you 2 examples. No BS, but plain old first hand experience :
- Is it possible to sail Acid 62 in < 20 knots of wind on flat water? Yes, it's possible for my 65 kg. Is it fun? Not for my taste, other boards are way funnier on dead flat water like the iSonic speed gun.
- Is it possible to sail the Serenity in high wind? Yes, it is, see 2007 old report with a 4.x m2 sail in 30 knots wind by Roger. Is it fun? Not for my taste, I would rather choose my Acid 62 + 4.2/4.7 m2 sail in such strong wind and waves at my local spot.

Cheers!

JM
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