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Old 11th May 2007, 08:54 AM   #21
Roger
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Hi Jay,
Well, the damge is to the deck in the existing large Tiki sticker, so the wood is to repair the Aus. Pine veneer, and the sticker is to replace the damaged areas of the original sticker.
Starboard has since moved the Tiki man a little further forward to get it out of the normal "impact zone".
Not sure if my discussions with Tiesda on this had anything to do with moving the Tiki forward, but I've noticed the current production models have the sticker out of the boom impact area.
Brad Miley, up in Pennsylvania, at Ebb Tide Windsurfing, was making some really nice multi-density deck protectors a couple of years back, so he might be a good source for a custom pad for your Serenity.
You'd need to rig up your board, with your rig, and then figure out the area where the board needs protection.
The deck in that area has non-skid, but I'm not sure why as no one will ever step that far forward when sailing.
I've been close to there a few times when sailing the board backwards into or away from the beach (to keep the fin clear of the bottom) but it's definitely got non-skid on it. You could use a marine grade adhesive sealant or perhaps some industrial grade double sided tape.
Either way, with the appropriate solvent, you could clean the area back off to original (except for UV yellowing of the adjacent areas.
Silicone is probably the last product I would recommend. I don't like silicone products after spending years and countless taxpayer dollars trying to get the stuff out of aluminum castings used on Naval radar systems. I can assure you that you won't be able to "cook" your board at a temperature that will truly eliminate all traces of silicone adhesive "intrusion" into the substrates.
Once the silicone was applied as a sealer for subasseblies, it migrated into the pores of the aluminum in the castings and they had to be heated to almost heat treating temperatures to get it to "boil out" so the casting could be recoated/repainted properly.
Retro's work really well on the Serenity, as do the Hcukers.
I'm not sure the 6.6 Hucker has quite the light wind power of the 7.5 m2 Retro, so I'd probably use the 7.5 Retro if I only had one rig.
I have them all so I'm free to experiment.
Both sails rig on a 460 cm mast, so the one additional batten in the Retro really doesn't add that much weight.
I've used both, and enjoyed them both.
I see alot of people using larger sails on the Serenity, but I've never really figured out why.
The board slices through the water almost effortlessly, so going with a larger rig just adds weight and doesn't seem to give you much more in terms of speed and angle.
Hope this helps,
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Old 11th May 2007, 11:56 AM   #22
Jay
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Roger,

I didn't realize the Tiki man had a clear background, I thought it was for covering the damage. It sounds like you are going to do a really nice cosmetic repair. Do you do that yourself or have an expert do it? That is way beyond my ability but it's nice to know that nice cosmetic repairs like that can be done on wood boards.

Thanks for the input on the adhesives. I learn something new from you every day! You know, the Serenity is such a beautiful and graceful looking board I do hate to plaster a pad up there which will detract from it's looks. I'm assuming that it's the boom head and not the boom arm that does the real damage? If so, do you think that either of the following approaches might work as well as a foam pad: 1) Cut a strip of multidensity foam maybe 1/2" or so thickness (or maybe dense pipe insulation which is already tubular) and put it inside a "boom bra", and/or 2) use a deviator. I've always hated deviators on rental boards I've used (primarily because they get in the way when repositioning the rig for waterstarting) - but in the case of the Serenity I doubt there will ever be enough wind for that so this might be one case where the Deviator would add value without any drawbacks? Also, the other thing about the Deviator that some people discuss is that in major catapults there is the potential that it might damage the mast track due to already big sail forces being multiplied by the leverage of the "Deviator fulcrum". I'd guess that this also wouldn't be a problem with the Serenity (people might drop the sail but are unlikely to be catapulted) UNLESS Starboard, in an effort to keep the board light "underengineered" the mast track compared to higher wind boards knowing that this mast track will not be subject to the same abuse as their other boards. Do you know anything about the construction of the mast track on the Serenity?

Regarding using the Hucker with a Serenity I guess the thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around relates to the issue of sail twist. It's my rudimentary understanding that the significant twist designed into most current sails (including Retros) is only beneficial when there's sufficient force on the sail to bend the top of the mast downwind, and even then, the benefit is better sail shape and sail stability resulting in better top end speed (meaning that in light winds the twist isn't doing you any good and effectively you're carrying the equivalent of a much smaller and relatively heavier sail). So with more draft, less twist, and less weight (for equivalent power) I would guess the Hucker would outperform (as well as accelerate faster in puffs). That being said, I never under down-haul my Retros to minimize twist becuase in planing winds the CE instability penalty is too great. Maybe you could make a case for under-downhauling Retros in light winds for use with the Serentity? Is that how you've rigged your Retros with the Serentiy?

Thanks again for all your thought provoking input.

Jay
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Old 11th May 2007, 09:02 PM   #23
Roger
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Hi Jay,
I do the "fast and ugly " repairs to the demo boards, to get them back on the water ASAP, but when I want good looking (as close to original as possible) repairs I take the board to the "master".
On the East Coast (where I'm based that "master" is Donnie Bowers at Fox Watersports in Buxton (Hatteras), NC.

As far as protecting the deck of your board, any of your suggested methods could work, but you would need to do some "testing" to find out where the impact points on the mast/boom really are, and then put your padding in these places. I like the deck pad approach the best as it's pretty easy to scope out the actual impact areas on the board and protect them.
The foam pad does not have to be "ugly", but I agree anything on the deck is going to take away from the Serenities sleek look.
You could try the Deviator, but be aware that the Deviator creates a serious "pinch point" in addition to being a n=major cause of "pried out" mast boxes.
Perhaps the Jez's knob is a better solution.
I think the mast track in the Serenity is as strong as any other Starboard, but the leverage exerted by the Deviator is a pretty terrible and damaging force.
I've sailed the 6.6 m2 Hucker on the Serenity, rigded as full as possible for good light wind power, and it moves the board quite well.
The Huckers are not "light weight' sails like say for instance the Severne Glide.
I rig all my Retro's by the "position of the front of the batten above the boom" method, so no, I don't under downhaul Retros in an attempt to get better low end. Retro's give alot of good low end due to seam shaping and batten tension.
If you want less twist in your Retro, and you have a 490 cm race mast, try the 7.5 Retro on that mast, or if the ferrules are compatible, use the top of the 490 on a 460 bottom. That will put more tension (due to d=the difference in IMCS ratings 490 vs 460) in the top of the sail and limit the amount of twist in the top.
I've never experienced the "CE instability" you speak of, on any Retro, so I'm not sure what to do about that.
I always downhaul until the end of the batten above the boom is pulled back to the middle (front to back) of the mast, and on compatible masts, that's also where the top twists off to the tuning symbol.
Hope this helps,
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Old 12th May 2007, 02:47 PM   #24
Jay
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Thanks Roger.

Do you know were I could get a Jez's Knob in the US? Searching the web I only see it sold overesas.

The CE instability I was referring to was only when I experimented in light wind by significantly under DH a big sail and then the wind picked up and was gusty. When normally DH'd, I agree Retro CE's are rock solid.

Jay
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Old 12th May 2007, 06:44 PM   #25
Randy
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Roger,

Do you normally "rail" the Serenity? I find it much easier to do so with the big fin than the small fin. However, I'm not sure if railing it adds much to the overall speed.
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Old 13th May 2007, 09:35 AM   #26
Roger
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Hi Randy,
If you don't "rail" the Serenity, how do you get it to sail upwnd?
If I want to head up higher, a little "railing" (lee rail down) and the Serenity heads upwind with any of the fins I've tried (except perhaps the 29 cm weed fin which isw simply too small for the board).
If you want to head downwind, put a little weight on your heels and the Serenity "bears off" nicely.
Railing the Severnity (like you would a long board) and keeping your weight forwars so the nose "bites" and rolls a nice little pressure wave off the bow will take you upwind really high. Just watch that you don't let it get too high where the Serenity is a bit prone to "stall".
So, with any fin larger than 30 cm (race blade, cleaver fin, weed fin) "railing" is the way to make the Serenity go where you want it to with the best speed. Railing is how you steer. Steady rig pressure (albeit with the rig pretty vertical and maybe carried a little more forward like you would when railing a longboard to get mas waterline length and upwind angle) will give you the speed.
Hope this helps,
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Old 14th May 2007, 05:48 AM   #27
Randy
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Roger,

True, you can rail the board with just about any fin, but I guess what I'm saying is if you have the larger fin, with just a little encouragement, the fin will push the windward side of the board up by itself, and you may even need to apply some pressure to keep it from turning over. This is how I sail a longboard most of the time (if there is enough wind.) With the smaller fin, railing is accomplisehd more by the effort of the sailor pushing the leeward side down. So its sort of a matter or railing powered by the fin or by the toes. On a conventional longboard, its easier to keep the board on a beam reach if the cb is partially retracted, though normally when railing one is trying to head upwind.

I don't find that you need to use the rail to sail up (or downwind) - sail steering is the way I do it, (though railing does help going upwind.) I'll give your ideas a try, however. I often can even rail on a beam reach (or close to it) with the big fin.

However, having said all that, I can get Serenity going very fast by sailing it flat on a beam reach - the nose lifts and probably the first 1/4 or 1/3 of the board is out of the water. I'm wondering if "railing" is a quicker mode of sailing than that? I can't really decide. What's your experience.

BTW - next fall you should come to the Atlanta Fall Classic, and we can have a "Serenity Race" in our notorius weak winds.

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