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Old 4th June 2007, 01:06 PM   #21
geo
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

If I get Thierry right, when he says "Drakes" he means the Curtis SR6b design fins, as opposed to the Deboichet design Drake Pro.
I agree with Thierry about the limitations of the Drake Pro (Deboichet): the stock fin supplied with my S95 feels unreliable at speed, like one is on the verge of spinout. The other model, the Curtis design, is described by Ian Fox in former threads as more apt to powered sailing and better at speed. This leads me to other considerations.
Starboard already has available a better fin design for dedicated slalom boards; so why supply such boards, that are advertised as good for performance sailing, with the fins that deliver better low end but less performance instead?
When I bought the S95 I decided to get more fins in order to enhance the board's range of use. At first, I thought to complement the stock 32 fin with similar 30 and 34. After having sailed the board with the stock fin a couple times, I discarded that option and went for 3 "true" Deboichets to be sure I was making no mistakes. If the board was outfitted with the (superior?) Drake/Curtis model instead, maybe I would have decided to buy similar fins and that would have been better for Starboard. So, why?
I remember time ago when most if not all manufacturers were producing slalom boards that derived from what the pros used, only detuned for "general use"; this resulted in unfit boards, with fatter rails that led to lesser control at speed, bigger volumes that meant useless weight and so on. At last, the new racing format of Slalom 42 implies that the pros use production boards and ultimately leads to customers using pro level boards (well I will never believe this is true at materials/weight level too, but at least it is good for the shapes) But it seems to me some manufacturers, and their testers in first, are still doing that old mistake: to think that customers have lesser performance requirements than competing racers. That is not true at all. Probably even the reverse can be true in some cases. Just like good boards sail better than detuned ones, good fins sail better too.
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Old 4th June 2007, 02:26 PM   #22
ThierryP
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

Geo, you got me right, I did mean the Curtis designs when I wrote "Drakes"; sorry for the confusion.
Like you, I have difficulties finding out a reason why SB continue to supply the iSonics with that Deboichet Design fin, when they have a better design. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that both Tiesda and the late Per are lightweight sailors, who do not load the fin very much, and they cannot test the limitations of that fin?
In any case, I have a sailing buddy who is a better sailor than me, and he can make about any piece of windsurfing equipment work (he loves using discarded or old gear, and make it work well); he even uses a 34 cm square fin from the HyperSonic 105! Yet, he has tried, but will not use the Deboichet Design supplied with his Sonic 95 any longer.
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Old 4th June 2007, 03:09 PM   #23
geo
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

Mystery gets deeper...

Funny thing the Drake Pro fins are actually Deboichet licensed designs. I don't think JJD is willing to have his design associated with lesser performing fins, so I have to guess that he did not "downgraded" the design and the main differences between the Drake Pro and the real thing are in materials and build. And I really can not understand this. Because the cost of materials in a fin can not be that much due to small dimensions.
It sounds incredible to me that a good series manufacturing method for fins is nt available. I can even remember that at least in my experience FinWorks produced a rather proficient Pro moulded series out of their Wing designs; and that the former Deboichet and Techtonics design stock fins supplied with my old RRD 281 and 278 slalom boards proved quite nice (even when handed a proto cnc by Roberto for test on my 278, I overall preferred the stock fin for more consistent performance).
Some manufacturer is now offering slalom boards with stock cnc/G10 fins and that may look a solution; but IMvvvHO moulded fins are the way to go with stock fins, in order to achieve consistent durable performance.
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Old 10th June 2007, 05:37 AM   #24
geo
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

Just to be totally honest. Today I swapped boards with another sailor, so I had a chance to test an iSonic 111 with its stock 36 fin. I must admit that the '07 Drake Pro is much changed from the '06 model; not quite like the real thing, but closer and definitely more acceptable. Whether it is worth to supply such fins as stock or not, it is still disputable.
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Old 10th June 2007, 10:22 PM   #25
DaveQ
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

geo,

I am totally baffled when people use that expression. Does it mean that whenever you do not use "to be totally honest," it means you are not telling the truth? Lying about something in other posts?!?!?!?

Otherwise, what do the words mean?..why use them?...makes me suspicious.

DaveQ
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Old 11th June 2007, 03:57 AM   #26
ThierryP
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

Dave,
Generally, I share your point of view on this phrase, but not here. Geo took the time to write a new comment on that thread, which lessened the criticism that he (and I) have expressed against the stock fins. He could have been just passive, and not post any comment after trying the 07 stock Drake Pro; by doing this, on the same day that he used that fin, he is totally honest indeed. One rare example when this phrase is used appropriately.

Thierry
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Old 11th June 2007, 01:07 PM   #27
geo
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Default RE: Drake fins, cheap but not chearful

Quote:
DaveQ wrote:
geo,

I am totally baffled when people use that expression. Does it mean that whenever you do not use "to be totally honest," it means you are not telling the truth? Lying about something in other posts?!?!?!?

Otherwise, what do the words mean?..why use them?...makes me suspicious.

DaveQ
Dave,

you're right, one can not be "partially" honest. Nevertheless it is something that is often here used in Italy.
What I mean is that after getting to experience something that I didn't before ('07 Drake Pro) it would not be honest not to amend my previous suggestions. Even if I was honest when I wrote those suggestions, and I could as well avoid to add that last post.
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