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Old 23rd June 2007, 04:19 PM   #1
Finn
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Default Problems going upwind

Hi Roger,

Maybe you or someone else can give me a very wanted tip.

I have been windsurfing for almost a year now. My equipment is a F-type 158, a 8,5 sail and the 64 cm stock fin that I use at quite flat water mostly (weight 78 kg). My problem is to get the whole package to sail upwind when planing. I manage to get the board into planing, get myself into at least the front strap and hook in. But when I after that try to steer upwind by using my feet the board loose the plane or tends to bear away .

My own rudimentary diagnosis is that I don't get enough of my own weight into the rig. Maybe due to too long harness lines (and/or having the lines too much forward) which makes it difficult to sheet in properly.

Do you think this is one the right track or is there something else to think of here.

Thanks and happy midsummer!

Finn
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Old 23rd June 2007, 10:25 PM   #2
Roger
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Hi Finn,
There are a number of factors that may be preventing you from untapping the full lite wind upwind potential of your F-type 158.
What brand and model 8.5 m2 rig do you have...?
What is the windspeed ....? Is it marginal for planing, or can you easily get your board up to full speed on a beam reach?
Where do you have the mast foot positioned... near the back...near the middle... or near the front... of the mast slot?
Are your harness lines truly balanced with your sail raked all the way back and the foot down on the deck....?
Answer these questions and we can figure out the issues that are keeping you from getting the full upwind potential from your board.
Also could you please describe what you think you are doing with your feet to make the board turn upwind.
Are you:
Getting the board on a full plane before your try to go upwind?
Lifting with your front foot slightly and pushing across the top of the fin parallel with the surface of the water (i.e. not pushing down toward the water)?
Also, how long are your harness lines?
How high is your boom? (i.e. shoulder high...chin hgh..nose high...up above your eyes?
How do you have your sail tuned? Maximum draft (i.e. minimum downhaul and outhaul for max. power); medium power i.e. normal dowhaul and outhaul for the best combination of range and top speed)
tuned for overpowered (i.e. max. downhaul and outhaul to flatten the foil and give the most twist at the top for good overpowered stability)
Are you simply heading too high for the conditions?
Your comment
"But when I after that try to steer upwind by using my feet the board loose the plane or tends to bear away ." suggests there may be more than one problem here.
If your board falls off plane (from a fully wound up beam reach plane) then you may be going up too high for the conditions, or turning upwind too quickly.
If your board "bears off the wind" tht would mean you are tipping the board too much to leeward and actually almost "initiating a jibe".
Where are your footstraps positioned... in the farthest back and outboard positions, or somewhere else?

Lots of factors here, and I'm sure we can solvew your issues with answers to these questions.
Hope this helps,
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Old 24th June 2007, 01:41 AM   #3
Finn
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Thanks for a quick reply. I was out in between this and my first post and experienced the same problem again. Now in stronger winds than usual (15-18 knots). It is less problem going on a beam reach but very hard for me to higher than that.

Here are the answers (to the best of my abilities)

• I’ve got a Maui Sail Pursuit no-cam freeride sail.
• I seem to experience the same problem in winds from marginal for getting planing on a beam reach (10-12 knots) to conditions in which I get overpowered (20+ knots).
• Mastfoot near the middle.
• Not at all sure that the harness lines are balanced when the sail is raked back and the foot down the deck, probably not. Anyway to test that without actually being out sailing?
• Regarding the behaviour of my feet, I do get the problem with board on a fully plane and even more so when not fully planing.
• Don’t think I manage to lift my front foot and I’m afraid I too often pushing down toward the water rather than pushing across the top of the fin parallel with the surface of the water, which I guess that’s the thing to do.
• My harness lines are adjustable and out to maximum 26 inches (min. 20 inch).
• The boom is chin high. The sail is downhauled to maximum, at least when the wind is above 14-15 knots.
• Yes, I probably go too high for the conditions some times. But, it seems to me that the board bears off wind even when it is plane sideways so to speak.
• The straps are in the farthest forward and inboard positions. Bad idea?

Hope this fills in the missing information and thanks again!

Finn
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Old 24th June 2007, 09:31 AM   #4
Roger
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Hi Finn,
OK, here are some suggestions:
I took a look at the Maui Sails Website and I'm not so sure that the 8.5 m2 Pursuit is really a good match for your F-Type 158.
That's all I'm going to say on this subject.
You need to figure out how to get back into the outboard and rear most footstraps. Using the inboard and forward footstrap positions is taking away alot of the leverage you need to set the fin attitude to take you upwind.
Your harness lines sound as if they are too long for you to get your weight off the board and onto the rig.
Especially with your footstraps forward and inboard, you can't get your weight off the board and I would suspect that you are indeed pushing "down" and doing it with your heels (or at least the heel of your back foot. On a board as wide as the F-Type 158, there's no way you can get the lee rail lowered a bit and pressure on the fin to go upwind on fin lift, so you are probably using upwind rail down and the shape (rockerline) in the board to take you upwind slightly.
This of courese slows you down dramatically and prevents your board from really getting upwind in the way it was designed.
If the board seems to be going sideways, I'm absolutely sure you are trying to use the upwind rail.
You need to really get the board going, get the rig fully sheeted in and the foot of the sail down on the deck (you are correct, you cannot check your harness line balance with the sail raked back and down until you are on the water and you can remove one hand from the boom, and if the rig seems balance, then take both hands off the boom momentarily. If your rig is truly balanced, you should be able to take both hands off and the rig will simply stay in the same position and provide you with the same power, either hands on or hands off.
I'd try your mast foot a little further back, but wait until you have acheived getting the footstraps moved back and out board.
My guess would be that you have only "scratched the surface" of the speed and upwind speed and angle the F-Type 158 is capable of.
Hope this helps,
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Old 24th June 2007, 02:02 PM   #5
Finn
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Thanks! Very valuable and I think you're very right. I've only started to find out the potentialities of the F-type. I'll get back to you when I've tried out your tips more thoroughly.

All the best!

Finn
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Old 25th June 2007, 12:07 AM   #6
windsurferdagg
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

I had the same problem and I think I asked roger the same thing

I just found that ourboard straps and really put your back foot on the edge of the board. Just lean forward so your harness almost digs into your side, rake the sail back a bit, push hard with back foot across the board while lifting up with your front foot. I can now go very well upwind.

tks roger, it works

Thomas
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Old 25th June 2007, 04:26 AM   #7
Duracell
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

another tip would be to hook in after you've got both feet in the straps just to make sure your lines aren't the problem.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 06:12 PM   #8
Finn
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Hi again,

I've now tried the straps in the back and outborad psoitions and it works! It was, as Roger suspected, me pushing down (especially my front foot) on the board rather than putting the pressure on the side of the board. It was rather quickly I managed to go higher but it wasn't until the wind picked up and I was able to get (also) the back foot in the strap that I got the fin lift for the first time. Really thriliing and great experience!!

Many thanks!

Fin
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Old 3rd July 2007, 09:13 PM   #9
Roger
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Hi Finn,
Glad to hear that the suggestions worked for you.
I agree, it's a reall rush when you get enough speed, and get everything balanced and positioened so your rig holds you up, the fin
bites with a little lee rail on, and the board takes off upwind, seeming to gain speed rather than lose speed.
Good stuff!
R
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Old 3rd July 2007, 09:37 PM   #10
windsurferdagg
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

I had the same eye opening experience two days ago... I would wait until my Go was fully planing before going for the straps, but now, I realized that getting a wider board with a big fin planing is all about pressure "across" the board and not just standing on it. Now if I know there is enough wind, bare off, feet in straps quickly and im planing faster and going WAY faster.

I love what roger says above... Especialy when overpowered! I was out well powered to overpowered on a 7.6 and was amazed how fun it was. I was blasting around, my friend only 2-3 feet away, keeping pace to each other and than we both would hit the same chop and jump (or in my case try to clear the massive 48 cm fin). THat is one of the most fun things to do. That and being so comfertable that you just let the front or back hand drag in the water. Its a bit showing off, but feels amazing.
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