Go Back   Starboard Forums > Windsurfing School

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3rd August 2007, 04:44 PM   #1
melon
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2
Default raking it back

Hi

in another thread you recomend:
Quote:
get the rig fully sheeted in and the foot of the sail down on the deck
this seems like good advide and sailing like this is comfortable...

however i have been reading an article by Guy Cribb. he said:
Quote:
Whatever conditions we're sailing in though, firstly I need to
dispel a dreadful myth that haunts windsurfing technique
(one of many) - closing the slot, or raking the rig back.
Closing the slot/raking the sail back literally went out of
fashion with flares! In the very earliest days of windsurfing
when we just cruised along slower than the wind, it was
important to stop some of the precious air from escaping
underneath the sail by raking it right back. In those days
boards were so long, narrow and heavy that raking the sail
back didn't have much effect on them. However for the
passed fifteen years, despite what you may see, read or
hear elsewhere, 'closing the slot' is like pulling a handbrake
on, and completely detrimental to your early planing and
general stance, as it kills the power of your sail and can
sink the tail of your board..
so which is it?

(please tell me if im in the wrong forum and redirect me if this question has already been asked)

hope you can help
-Simon
melon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2007, 08:07 PM   #2
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,109
Default RE: raking it back

Hi Simon,
Like alot of what is found on the Guy Cribb site, if you take things out of context (the same can be said for this site as well) you can come up with several different "interpretations".
If we are talking free ride and wave sails, with very high tack to foot angles, then Guy Cribb is right on. If you rake a free ride or wave sail back until the foot angle is parallel to the board, you will be killing alot of the power in the sail and getting the CE (Center of Effort) of the rig way back behind the fin. This will cause the board to head upwind, won't help with early planing, and it for sure will kill the power in the rig.
So, for this type of gear, and freeride sailing/wavesailing what Guy Cribb suggests is essentiallly correct.
If you change the context, to Free race and race sails (which many of us in lighter wind areas use all the time, then what Guy Cribb suggests is very much not the case.
Free Race and Race sails have a much fuller foot with a much lower tack to clew foot angle, and most are made to be brought down parallel to the deck.
If you have the correct components (i.e. mast base/mast base extension with a really low pulley setup ala Chinook's CL250) then you can rig your sail really low, and get the foot of the sail right down on the deck (effectively closing the gap completely) with the sail at it's designed rake angle. Everything balances at this rake angle and it's up to you to adjust your mast base (in the mast base slot) so you apply the mast foot pressure in the right place to get the CE of the rig to align/balance with the CLR of the fin at this rake angle.
Check out any current race photos (especially formula) and you will see that for going upwind the sailors will have the gap closed.
So, it depends on what "sailing discipline" you are talking about, and what "design type" rigs/sails you are talking about whether "closing the gap" gets you maximum performance, or results in a grossly "over raked" rig that kills it's power.
So, I will neither agree, nor disagree with Guy Cribb's assesment, but he tends to make strong "always the case" statements that many sailors misinterpret.
Windsurfing technique is far too dynamic for anyone to apply words like always and never.
So, is "closing the gap" an anachronous myth....?
NO!..... if you apply it to modern free race, slalom, and race gear.
YES!.... well MAYBE...if you apply it to modern free ride(smaller sails espcially) and wave sails.... but then it never really applied to these rigs even in the past as for this type of sailing a deep low foot normally results in the sailor "dragging" the foot or having the foot get slapped by a wave, so the sailmakers "fix" this potential problem by making the foot run at a much higher angle.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2007, 04:54 AM   #3
melon
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2
Default RE: raking it back

ok thank you very much that clears it up
melon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2007, 03:11 PM   #4
Duracell
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 172
Default RE: raking it back

Quote:
Like alot of what is found on the Guy Cribb site, if you take things out of context (the same can be said for this site as well) you can come up with several different "interpretations".
Quote:
If you change the context, to Free race and race sails (which many of us in lighter wind areas use all the time, then what Guy Cribb suggests is very much not the case.
Seems like you haven't read what Guy Cribbs writes but "quote" (or rather just comment on hear say) him anyway.

Last edited by Roger; 21st August 2007 at 03:43 AM.
Duracell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2007, 09:33 PM   #5
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,109
Default RE: raking it back

Hi Duracell,
I have no reply here other than to ask what I think is a pertinent question.
On your Isonic 133 W do you pretty much "close the gap" when you are sailing your fastest?
Do you rake your smaller rigs back equally as far on your Kombat 86 W....?
Guy Cribbs has his way of explainig things, and that works for many sailors I'm sure.
I have my way of explaining things, and the "success stories" right here on this forum to back up the "helpfulness" and validity of that advice.
This seems to work for many sailors as well.
Just different "styles" I think.

Last edited by Roger; 22nd August 2007 at 04:17 AM.
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th August 2007, 02:12 AM   #6
Duracell
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 172
Cool

Hi Roger,

the point is, he didn't say/write not to close the gap, he just said not to close just for the sake of closing it. He also wrote somethign along the lines that race sails were explicitly designed to work with a "closed gap" (but somewhat indirectly, more like mast upright max pulling power, and then voila, the gap is closed (again, applies in general to some/all free race/race sails)race sails).

So, nobody's saying your advice is wrong, just that the guy cribb quoting thing by you and others is a bit way off and out of context.
Duracell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 03:01 AM.