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Old 30th August 2008, 03:21 PM   #31
C249
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Sorry, the bit about the last Olympics was meant to say "as the last Olympics in the Tornado cat (which tacks downwind at about 90 degrees) proved....
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Old 30th August 2008, 05:57 PM   #32
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C249:
Fran, in the normal variable conditions how would you choose where to put the fin? The rails are low aspect and therefore inherently not efficient in terms of preventing leeway, aren't they?

Cats can have very deep, narrow shapes and a cat without boards cannot compete with a cat with boards.

You may be right C249, what about a "sabre" daggerboard with a simple dagerboard hole: light and much more easy to built than the large ones...
...Maybe dangerous to have the daggerboard half out on the deck, or on the arm when speeding more than 30 knots!
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Old 31st August 2008, 05:19 PM   #33
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kona numbers my source is the factory that makes them, but they would not be able to give much information other than the question whether in fact it is the biggest selling board as of now. The Futura or Go would probably have that title - multiple models of course.

Biggest selling model perhaps, still think that is possible. And let's not sell the board short, it is frigging awesome no matter what the sales.

Chris - there are a lot of rules in play now in windsurfing where you can plow into marks, pumping ok etc that make it decidely less tactical than boat rules coming into marks and fewer kinetics would be (which windsurfing used to have); it is the hardest event, IMHO to win at the olympics, but right now, I agree with your assessment that the boat speeds aren't equal; that stems from the massive importance of pumping strength and atheleticism. That may explain why the Chinese (with relatively less sailing/tactical knowledge) have jumped into this class so successfully, yet been relatively a lot less successful in the other classes.

I am not saying there is more tactics in a downwind planer, perhaps I was a bit too knee jerk. But to think they have no tactics (the usual DDW line which I hear every single time I go out sailing, and which I am sure almost every high performance sailing sailor has heard if they front up with a skiff, planing board, or otherwise) is not disimilar to the lines levelled at windsurfing by non windsurfers - 'it is just air rowing, there aren't much tactics are there?' and so on. If that is why people choose or don't choose a class......at least the facts should be right.

My crew is 9th at the Hobie worlds, SEA champion, Asian games champion in Hobie 16s, 420s, 470s, tactician on a farr 40 and also has won the Platus here and more recently with me, sportboats in some of our regattas.

He doesn't think the slower boats are less tactical. He also doesnt' think they are more tactical. He certainly does point out specific angles though; especially downwind split gybes where a planer/cat or similar can make or break; upwind where the cost of each tack is so much more in the Hobie than the 420. he also doesn't think that dinghies are less tactical than keelers for the most part, despite the massive information advantage they have on a keeler.

All this of course, you well know, and I think we can put to rest that a board should be selected or not selected on the basis of 'that one is tactical, this one is not' unless we start to bring in significant kinetics, at which point tactics will start to come second to kinetics generating ability, which I think is a problem (note many others do not, and love the pump fest).
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Old 1st September 2008, 06:19 AM   #34
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Formula would be nice, but this is the issue

Final day - event reports
16:06 | I am afraid that is it for this event - we do not have time to validate these championships. The prize giving will go ahead - but no european titles this year. The organisers have done everything expected of them ; unfortunately this championship will be remembered for lack of wind.


Longboards with 10.5/9.0 sail selection can cover all winds
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Old 1st September 2008, 01:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Formula would be nice, but this is the issue

Final day - event reports
16:06 | I am afraid that is it for this event - we do not have time to validate these championships. The prize giving will go ahead - but no european titles this year. The organisers have done everything expected of them ; unfortunately this championship will be remembered for lack of wind.


Longboards with 10.5/9.0 sail selection can cover all winds
very true.

although you can run formula racing in sub planing; it just totally sucks. Formula organisers insist on it being a minimum of (if I recall) 6 knots min wind speed average of 8 or something like that, with consistent wind direction.

In fact, I've raced boats where we could have protested the race committee when the wind swung so far that the upwind legs were layable in one hit; so it isn't only wind strength but also direction, and direction affects all classes.

The 49ers and Tornados claim I think a minimum wind strength of 6 knots to start, but they can race in less. The formula guys if they are serious about wanting olympic selection, need to prove that the class can still somehow drift around the course in sub 6. It is going to occur on some days for sure.
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Old 4th September 2008, 04:34 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
I will say this again.....If you want to race in 0-25 Knots plenty of tactics and no pumping needed, bring back the Division 1 board MISTRAL SUPERLIGHT length 380cm width 68cm volume 260 liters WEIGHT 16 kgs it had a 6.3m2 sail and thats all it needed, ofcourse you could modenise the sail if you like. I would be more than happy to race again with this board. If anyone wants a photo I can send you one.
me to. Bring back the superlight!
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Old 23rd September 2008, 07:47 PM   #37
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This is by far the most interesting topic I have read in ages. I really do hope the longboard makes a return to the Olympics. It was so much more exciting when everyone had the IMCO, it was good for everything and it plains. I am really disapointed with the whole formula thing, no soul.
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