Old 21st October 2008, 04:23 PM   #1
Roly Gardner
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Default Initiating Gybes

Hi All,

I wonder if I might have your thoughts and observations on gybing, particularly the set up and early movements? I would like to have a clear understanding of what I am trying to do and perhaps some drills to practice in order that I can build up the sequence.

I am not talking about a full blooded carve gybe necessarily. I have studied the magazines and dvds but I am still confused about the actions I need to take to get the board set up for the turn. It seems that there are conflicting views on this. Jem Hall seems to sink the tail of the board, move his back hand down the boom, sheet in and hey presto, around he goes with a controlled exit and late rig flip. Others seem to say that you must get your weight forward and make room for your body by pushing the rig away and using a more dramatic rail tilt, drive the board round.

I have tried these things to no avail. Mostly I find it difficult to get the board to bear away from the wind and even if it does I find myself stuck in the "running" position, ie wind directly behind and both feet pointing down the board. Not very stable! At this stage I usually fall in or end up heading back into wind.

As ever nay advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Roly
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Old 22nd October 2008, 06:09 AM   #2
Roger
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Hi Roly,
Hmmmm.... if I'm reading your post correctly it seems like you are confusing a couple of different types of gybes (some sort of longboard sink or pivot gybe (from Jem Hall) and a regular carve gybe on a shortboard (weight forward...room for the body..rig forward.. drive the board round).
If I remeber correctly you have a large Carve, right?
OK, the longboard pivot/sink gybe isn't going to work very well on your Carve, but you can do something similar on your Carve board, just don't step back so far, don't sink the tail so much, and put the rig well out on the windward side of the board and the power in the sail will drive you around. This sort of gybe works when you are "slogging.
It can be referred to as a flare gybe.
If you have a bit more speed, then a flare gybe will still work is if you aren't powered up completely, but if you arr planing along you can turn it into a "flarve" gybe.
This gybe combines the elements of a non-planing flare gybe and a carve gybe.
You take your back foot out of the strap before you enter, and place it over near the lee rail (and a bit forward, but behind the front footstrap) .
Apply some pressure on that back foot to "tip the board" downwind to start your gybe.
At the same time, bring your rig across the board and ut the mast well upwind to steer the board around to downwind.
When your are nearly downwind, flip your sail, then power it up on the new tack.
When you switch your feet can be as you work your way around, or later after the board is on the new course.
When you have lots of wind, you can go for a fully carving gybe.
So at what point in your gybe attempts do you tend to fall in most often.
Hope this helps,
If you
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Old 22nd October 2008, 10:27 AM   #3
Ellen Faller
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Hi Roly,
What Roger said! And I'll toss in a few little things.
Sometimes, it helps to think systematically, kind of like a check list.
Top to bottom:
LOOK BACK to be sure there is no one just behind and downwind of you. Keep it safe!
Move your back hand back, or farther out on the boom.
Unhook quietly without letting the board "feel" you do it. Keep your speed up. Most folks, when learning to jibe, either lose speed at this point, or don't have enough to begin with. Scary fast is the ticket.
Hang down on the boom, keep the mast foot pressure on, as you move your back foot across the board to the other side.
There is lots more to the jibe/gybe but all these things help to get you started.
good luck,

Ellen
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Old 22nd October 2008, 03:49 PM   #4
Roly Gardner
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Thanks Roger, Thanks Ellen,

Some useful tips there. I do think that I am trying to gybe without enough initial speed. This is probably because I hoped to get a "feel" for manoeuvre before moving on to higher wind situations. This is a process I have used successfully for other techniques. Is that possible or do I really have to power up and go for it? In truth, that was what I had to do to getting into the foot straps as Roger knows. I was rushing and not waiting to get sufficient speed to make the transition.

Yes Roger, I have a Carve 145. I notice that the demo board that Jem Hall is using is not a modern short board and this I think has confused me a bit. He refers to the action as "a turntable". By sinking the tail, the board turns around this apex. My attempts fail at the point that I am pointing down wind. I get stuck in this position as I do not know what I a supposed to do! The board seems not to want to continue the turn and I just keep "running" downwind. This is a pretty unstable position even on my largish board and I usually fall in or just reverse up and tack!

I certainly have not been tipping the board away from the wind by putting the pressure on the lee rail. I have been trying to get the board moving by bearing the rig away. This has a limited effect I find and I am sure that I am not doing this right. I tend to draw the mast across a bit and forward by extending my front arm whilst looking off downwind. Is that right? Should I exaggerate the movement perhaps?

In terms of the rig flip, should I try to hold the rig clew first until I am out of the turn as I have seen on the instruction dvds or make an early flip so that I can power up and away. Would the latter help drive the board around the final part of the turn. Maybe I can work out the feet switch once I get the gybe working or is this integral to the process?

Thanks again.

Roly

Last edited by Roly Gardner; 22nd October 2008 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 02:29 PM   #5
PG
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There seems to be two basic things to think about:
- Start out planing on a reach, in the footstraps
- Remove the back foot from the strap and place it on the lee side between the straps. Put some weight on this "inside foot", and presto, the board turns. This sinking of the rail is how a planing board turns! In non-planing mode you steer with the sail, but not when planing.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 02:54 PM   #6
Chris Pressler
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Hi Roly,
and think a bit about the sail and your head (eyes). Stretch your front arm when you sheet in the rigg (Sail) and have a view over your forearm on the nose of your board and a bit forward. More choppy the water more you bend your knees. Would be helpful to watch a vid of your turns.

Good luck,
Chris
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Old 25th October 2008, 09:33 AM   #7
Roger
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Hi Roly...
I'll paste in your last post here and work on each item seperately...OK?

"Some useful tips there. I do think that I am trying to gybe without enough initial speed. This is probably because I hoped to get a "feel" for manoeuvre before moving on to higher wind situations. This is a process I have used successfully for other techniques. Is that possible or do I really have to power up and go for it? In truth, that was what I had to do to getting into the foot straps as Roger knows. I was rushing and not waiting to get sufficient speed to make the transition."

Roly..... You have to be "up to speed" to attempt any sort of planing or carve gybe.
If you sheet out or slow down for any reason, you simply won't have the speed for the board to support your weight that far back.
The result is the nose pops up and you lose all your speed. Gybe over! (at least any sort of plaing gybe).
So, yes, you need to "go for it" and go into your gybe with as much speed as you can muster. The more speed, the better!
Gybing through "downwind" pretty much leaves you powerless for at least a little while, so you have to have enough speed going in to coast/carve through the fully downwind portion of your gybe when you have virtually no power at all.

Non-planing (sink/pivot) gybes are a different matter, so you can often turn a failed carve gybe into a sink or pivot non-plaing gybe. Kinda nice as it makes you look like you intended to do the non-planing gybe all along!

"Yes Roger, I have a Carve 145. I notice that the demo board that Jem Hall is using is not a modern short board and this I think has confused me a bit. He refers to the action as "a turntable". By sinking the tail, the board turns around this apex. My attempts fail at the point that I am pointing down wind. I get stuck in this position as I do not know what I a supposed to do! The board seems not to want to continue the turn and I just keep "running" downwind. This is a pretty unstable position even on my largish board and I usually fall in or just reverse up and tack!"
You can do very nice sink/pivot gybes on your Carve 145, but you will need to move forward to a point where the board is wider and more stable.
Are you sure that Jem isn't doing his pivot gybes on a longboard? Pivot gybes are really more a longboard maneuver.
You can do them, but you will have to experiement on where you need to position yourself on the board. Back foot between the front and rear footstraps, on the centerline
(use the back foot, fin, and tail of the board as the center point of your pivot).
Where to place your front foot you will have to figure out on your own.
The idea is to slow down, sink the tail of the board, and use the power in the rig (flared out to the upwind side) to drive your board around.

"I certainly have not been tipping the board away from the wind by putting the pressure on the lee rail. I have been trying to get the board moving by bearing the rig away. This has a limited effect I find and I am sure that I am not doing this right. I tend to draw the mast across a bit and forward by extending my front arm whilst looking off downwind. Is that right? Should I exaggerate the movement perhaps?"
Please clarify "bearing the rig away" for me.
You need to bear the board away and onto a more downwind course as you set up any gybe.
You also need to bear off (both the board and the rig) to get on plane when you aren't fully powered up.
Yes, bringing the mast upwind in front of your shoulder (actually well upwind of your front shoulder) will help turn you board downwind when trying for a sink/pivot type non-planing gybe.

"In terms of the rig flip, should I try to hold the rig clew first until I am out of the turn as I have seen on the instruction dvds or make an early flip so that I can power up and away. Would the latter help drive the board around the final part of the turn. Maybe I can work out the feet switch once I get the gybe working or is this integral to the process?"
Sailing out of a gybe "clew first" is a pretty advanced technique (mostly used by sailors on low volume (sinker) type wave and B&J boards that will sink if the power from the rig goes away completely.) The clew first gybe is a way to keep power in the rig all the way around the gybe so the board does not stop and sink out from under them.
You need to work first on getting the board to carve into the gybe.
Then worry about the sail flip.
You should flip it a little before the board is heading straight downwind, but you must
keep the board carving so don't get so wrapped up in the sail flip that the board straightens out and sails off downwind.
Break your gybe up into segments, and work you way through the segments.
1/ Initiation/setup for the gybe.
2/ The carve into the gybe.
3/ The sail flip just before downwind.
4/ The foot switch
5/ Powering up on the new tack.
If you take these in sequence, and work on them one at a time, as you get further into the sequence, pretty soon the board will carve in when you initiate, keep carving as you
flip your sail, and straighten out well below a beam reach on the new tack.
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 26th October 2008 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Typo!
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Old 27th October 2008, 03:58 PM   #8
Roly Gardner
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Thanks Roger,

That makes the process a whole lot clearer.

To explain "bear the rig away", I really meant to say bear the board away by bringing the rig forward and across which I think you assumed given your reply. I think that I have not been exagerating this movement enough to get the board bearing away quickly. I also think that I should have been looking to flip the sail earlier. I believe that I get to the stage where I am facing directly down wind wailting fo rthe board to fininsh the turn when it never will. I need to flip the sail and power up on the new tack, a bit likr what I do on my tacking. I get the board almost throught he wind, but in an effort to keep things moving through the manoever, lay the rig down and push it froward thus bearing away and getting poered up on the next tack.

I hope to be able to get out soon for a bit of practice and wil give you any feed back.

Thanks once again.

Roly
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