Phantom 320 Daggerboard Stiff

Philsurf · 29th January 2009, 05:42 PM

Hello Team, Starboard Philippines here trying to help out a customer who just received his 2009 Phantom 320. The Daggerboard is extremely hard to deploy and retract using the foot. Had to drop the sail in the water and actuate by hand and even that was stiff. Any suggestions? Does the daggerboard box have some kind of friction adjustment. Another problem is when fully retracted the knob depresses the pedal unlocking the mast track mechanism!!! Any help is much appreciated.

andretsin · 29th January 2009, 06:00 PM

Hello,
I'm not from the team, but i'm here already 2 months and the team seem to be disapeared so i'm going to try to help you. I have phantom race 380 from 2008. My daggerboard is also very hard to put down and up. I think one solution would be to brush the rubbers. I didn't do it, but i read it somewere. I just got used to the stiffness and the lips became also a little bit softer, so nowadays i'm able to do it with my feet, or sometimes helping with one hand while i hold the sail with the other out of the watter. But this is not good method for a competition, is takes too much time. So i guess the best is to brush a little bit the lips or maybe to put vaseline there.
I don't have the problem you said with the knob and track. Can you try to act in the pedal pressing the knob (wich would press the pedal) and not directly the pedal?
I hope this helps. Bye

Philsurf · 30th January 2009, 01:42 PM

Thanks for sharing your experience on the subject Andretsin! What kind of brush did you use? Anyone else out there that can help? Remi? Roger??

Remi · 2nd February 2009, 05:59 AM

Hi Philsurf,

I didn't recomand to brush it.

The better way is to use tephlon, silicone, this give you good results.

All the best

Ken · 4th February 2009, 12:27 AM

As Remi says, use silicone.

When I raced an Equipe II XR in the old days, I used a silicone jell to spread on the gasket to facilitate easy movement of the dagger board (stays on longer than a spray). However, it looks like the Phantom may have a more serious problem. I could always move the daggerboard on the Equipe with my foot even without the silicone. The silicone just made it easier.

jnassr2000 · 5th February 2009, 06:50 AM

I have a 2009 Phantom 320 and am having great difficulty in deploying and retracting the dagger board. In a race, using the dagger board would be more trouble than it should. I will try silicone as suggested by Remi though I fear it will wash off at a critical time when I need it most.

I however feel that a better solution is for Starboard to consider retrofitting the Phantom with dagger board gasket made of a more slippery material. The present gasket is not quite as compatible with the dagger board material, as say, the slippery compatibility of my easy to use 2009 Rio's dagger board with its supplied gasket.

John

Ken · 5th February 2009, 09:48 PM

I am sure that everyone that races longboards knows that when pointing high in strong winds with the daggerboard loaded, adjusting the dagger is very hard, even if it moves easily when un-loaded. The dagger must be easy to move or you will have a bunch of very unhappy racers.

Is this a gasket problem or is there too much friction between the dagger and the well?

Mike T · 8th February 2009, 01:17 AM

Phil
This might be a silly question but have you tried to remove the dagger board and the cassette (clipperbox) to see if the pivot point is okay. I have not seen a Phantom 320 but after having messed with Equipe and superlight dagger boards it sounds like the daggerboard isn't in the cassette correctly. Especially since you said the knob on the end of the dagger board is hitting the mast track pedal. I would see if you or the dealer can remove the centerboard cassette and dagerboard and make sure it is installed correctly and that it isnt damaged. On the Mistral dagger boards if one of the pivot pins got cracked the board wouldnt go down or come back up due to it be out of the grove that is molded into the cassette. I would probably take the cassette out and see if everything is okay with it. Good luck! Mike

Roger · 8th February 2009, 07:53 AM

Hi Philsurf,
I'd try a couple of things to make the daggerboard? (retractable centerboard actually)
more easy to deploy and retract.
First, as suggested, take the screws out of the deck plate and examine the pivot points,
the bushings/bearing areas where the pivot points seat, and the "stopper" that prevents the CB from retracting too far.
The fact that the handle hits the deck when the CB is fully retracted is a good clue that the "stopper" is not adjusted or installed correctly.
I have a Rio M with pretty much the same CB cassette (I think) and I needed to take the deck plate off and make sure that the CB had enough clearance to move up and down in the cassette freely.
Perhaps a few strokes with a file on the "tight spots" would free it up.
Also, for a "lubricant" (that does not attract and hold sand and other foreign particles)
use a bar of soap.
When you have the cassette opened up, rub a bar of bath tub soap over everything!
Then before you go out each tme, rub the areas of the CB that contact the lips of the gaskets with the bar of soap. Also "lube" the lips of the CB gasket in the bottom of the board with the bar of soap.
Also, with the stiff gaskets that they've decided to use on these boards, it's necessary to make sure the CB comes all the way up through the gasket for it's entire length.
If the CB sticks through the gasket at all, it's nearly impossible to move it either up or down.
Stepping down on the back of the handle, with the CB nearly all the way up, so it comes
completely inside the cassette and isn't "trapped" by extending partially through the gasket is a pretty necessary thing to do.
Also, if this CB cassette has the plastic "guides" on the sides, and the plastic "lock mechanism" (either all the way up or all the way down in 2 "detents") make sure the plastic parts are fully seated in the sides of the cassette and they are "retained" from
moving inward and interfering with the free operation of the CB.
Hope this helps,

andretsin · 9th February 2009, 02:31 PM

Hello, as i said, i have phantom 380 from 2008. I'm almost sure is a problem of the rubbers, not the box itself. Maybe is because the gasket was tested in Thailand, where the water i guess is arround 20-25ºC, but i sail in athlantic north were the water is 10ºC, so maybe this is hardening the rubbers. (I can perfectly feel how more difficult is to put on my ski boots on specially cold days, because the plastic gets less flexible.) I don't thing to brush them is such a bad idea. But only the necesary, because the harder they are, better surface you have for planning. If they are too soft you would have too much water intake.

29th January 2009, 05:42 PM	#1
Philsurf Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 22	Phantom 320 Daggerboard Stiff Hello Team, Starboard Philippines here trying to help out a customer who just received his 2009 Phantom 320. The Daggerboard is extremely hard to deploy and retract using the foot. Had to drop the sail in the water and actuate by hand and even that was stiff. Any suggestions? Does the daggerboard box have some kind of friction adjustment. Another problem is when fully retracted the knob depresses the pedal unlocking the mast track mechanism!!! Any help is much appreciated.

2nd February 2009, 05:59 AM	#4
Remi STARBOARD DEVELOPMENT Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Thailand Posts: 2,342	Hi Philsurf, I didn't recomand to brush it. The better way is to use tephlon, silicone, this give you good results. All the best __________________ Rémi Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards : Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161 Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141. iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117, 127 & 137 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. UltraSonic 147 Formula Experience One Design Phantom Race 377/320 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Phantom 295 : To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Formula 167 & 167 Wide : To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Racing Serinity Cat Concept To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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29th January 2009, 06:00 PM	#2
andretsin Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 28	Hello, I'm not from the team, but i'm here already 2 months and the team seem to be disapeared so i'm going to try to help you. I have phantom race 380 from 2008. My daggerboard is also very hard to put down and up. I think one solution would be to brush the rubbers. I didn't do it, but i read it somewere. I just got used to the stiffness and the lips became also a little bit softer, so nowadays i'm able to do it with my feet, or sometimes helping with one hand while i hold the sail with the other out of the watter. But this is not good method for a competition, is takes too much time. So i guess the best is to brush a little bit the lips or maybe to put vaseline there. I don't have the problem you said with the knob and track. Can you try to act in the pedal pressing the knob (wich would press the pedal) and not directly the pedal? I hope this helps. Bye

30th January 2009, 01:42 PM	#3
Philsurf Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 22	Thanks for sharing your experience on the subject Andretsin! What kind of brush did you use? Anyone else out there that can help? Remi? Roger??

4th February 2009, 12:27 AM	#5
Ken Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas USA Posts: 799	As Remi says, use silicone. When I raced an Equipe II XR in the old days, I used a silicone jell to spread on the gasket to facilitate easy movement of the dagger board (stays on longer than a spray). However, it looks like the Phantom may have a more serious problem. I could always move the daggerboard on the Equipe with my foot even without the silicone. The silicone just made it easier.

5th February 2009, 06:50 AM	#6
jnassr2000 New Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2	I have a 2009 Phantom 320 and am having great difficulty in deploying and retracting the dagger board. In a race, using the dagger board would be more trouble than it should. I will try silicone as suggested by Remi though I fear it will wash off at a critical time when I need it most. I however feel that a better solution is for Starboard to consider retrofitting the Phantom with dagger board gasket made of a more slippery material. The present gasket is not quite as compatible with the dagger board material, as say, the slippery compatibility of my easy to use 2009 Rio's dagger board with its supplied gasket. John

5th February 2009, 09:48 PM	#7
Ken Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas USA Posts: 799	I am sure that everyone that races longboards knows that when pointing high in strong winds with the daggerboard loaded, adjusting the dagger is very hard, even if it moves easily when un-loaded. The dagger must be easy to move or you will have a bunch of very unhappy racers. Is this a gasket problem or is there too much friction between the dagger and the well?

8th February 2009, 01:17 AM	#8
Mike T Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 64	Phil This might be a silly question but have you tried to remove the dagger board and the cassette (clipperbox) to see if the pivot point is okay. I have not seen a Phantom 320 but after having messed with Equipe and superlight dagger boards it sounds like the daggerboard isn't in the cassette correctly. Especially since you said the knob on the end of the dagger board is hitting the mast track pedal. I would see if you or the dealer can remove the centerboard cassette and dagerboard and make sure it is installed correctly and that it isnt damaged. On the Mistral dagger boards if one of the pivot pins got cracked the board wouldnt go down or come back up due to it be out of the grove that is molded into the cassette. I would probably take the cassette out and see if everything is okay with it. Good luck! Mike

8th February 2009, 07:53 AM	#9
Roger Dream Team - School Guru Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,064	Hi Philsurf, I'd try a couple of things to make the daggerboard? (retractable centerboard actually) more easy to deploy and retract. First, as suggested, take the screws out of the deck plate and examine the pivot points, the bushings/bearing areas where the pivot points seat, and the "stopper" that prevents the CB from retracting too far. The fact that the handle hits the deck when the CB is fully retracted is a good clue that the "stopper" is not adjusted or installed correctly. I have a Rio M with pretty much the same CB cassette (I think) and I needed to take the deck plate off and make sure that the CB had enough clearance to move up and down in the cassette freely. Perhaps a few strokes with a file on the "tight spots" would free it up. Also, for a "lubricant" (that does not attract and hold sand and other foreign particles) use a bar of soap. When you have the cassette opened up, rub a bar of bath tub soap over everything! Then before you go out each tme, rub the areas of the CB that contact the lips of the gaskets with the bar of soap. Also "lube" the lips of the CB gasket in the bottom of the board with the bar of soap. Also, with the stiff gaskets that they've decided to use on these boards, it's necessary to make sure the CB comes all the way up through the gasket for it's entire length. If the CB sticks through the gasket at all, it's nearly impossible to move it either up or down. Stepping down on the back of the handle, with the CB nearly all the way up, so it comes completely inside the cassette and isn't "trapped" by extending partially through the gasket is a pretty necessary thing to do. Also, if this CB cassette has the plastic "guides" on the sides, and the plastic "lock mechanism" (either all the way up or all the way down in 2 "detents") make sure the plastic parts are fully seated in the sides of the cassette and they are "retained" from moving inward and interfering with the free operation of the CB. Hope this helps,

9th February 2009, 02:31 PM	#10
andretsin Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 28	Hello, as i said, i have phantom 380 from 2008. I'm almost sure is a problem of the rubbers, not the box itself. Maybe is because the gasket was tested in Thailand, where the water i guess is arround 20-25ºC, but i sail in athlantic north were the water is 10ºC, so maybe this is hardening the rubbers. (I can perfectly feel how more difficult is to put on my ski boots on specially cold days, because the plastic gets less flexible.) I don't thing to brush them is such a bad idea. But only the necesary, because the harder they are, better surface you have for planning. If they are too soft you would have too much water intake.