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Old 30th June 2009, 09:44 AM   #11
Roger
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Hi John,
Hmmmm... a Gemini with your wife......that could prove very interesting indeed.
The Geminis are really a laugh riot, but they do seem to involve some minor whacks
on the head and shoulders until you really get thing coordinated.
Have fun!
R
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Old 1st July 2009, 12:09 AM   #12
Ken
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From Roger - "You could probably get used to a formula board, but you are correct, they are pretty much set up for really huge sails ( 9.5m2 is probably a minimum) and max. upwind/downwind."

I would disagree with Roger since I have a lot of experience racing formula on pretty small sails. I have an F160 and in at least 5 regattas, I have used a 6.5 or 6.6 race sail in winds approaching 30 knots. I have also used my 7.6 and 8.4 in strong winds.

I only weigh 79kg and find that fully powerd small sails perform and handle just as well as the larger sails which I use in lighter winds (9.2 & 11.0). In fact, when I am on my 6.6, I am able to point higher than the other racers on larger sails. I do give up some speed on the downwind, but I have my limits and the downwind is where it gets hairy for me.

However, I would not go out on my formula board to free sail in winds over 20 knots, instead I would be on a slalom or bump and jump board. If I was a really serious formula racer, I should be out in 20+ knots practicing on the board, but that's not what I choose to do, it's just more fun to be on smaller board in the stronger winds.

For what it's worth..........
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Old 1st July 2009, 05:10 AM   #13
johntr
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Ken:

Is your Formula board fun for just zooming around on lighter wind days? What's it like to blast around trying to go fast across the wind, playing with gybes, &c?

Thanks,
John
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Old 1st July 2009, 05:13 AM   #14
johntr
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Roger:

Oh oh. My wife would *not* be very happy with whacks to the head and shoulders. Thanks for the warning.

Sigh. I do want to find a way to give Starboard some more of my money this year, but they just don't seem to have the right option! From all the discussion it sounds like they just need to make a new board:

- 100 cm
- EVA deck
- Go-like construction for durability and reasonable weight
- longer, for easier control
- nice new features like the cutouts, for faster sailing

How hard can that be? I bet their designers can make a great board like that in their sleep .

John
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Old 1st July 2009, 07:01 AM   #15
Roger
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Hi John,
I agree pretty much with what Ken says, having sailed formula boards and formula like boards (Free formula and F-Type as well as the early Starts) with smaller sails.
Ken (I've sailed with Ken in Dallas a couple of times) has slalom boards as well, and uses the smaller sails on his Isonic etc. but downsizes on his formula board for high wind racing on the formula.
I'm fairly sure this is not what you are looking for in a replacement for your '01 Start with 9.0 m2 and larger rigs in light arir Mid America conditions.

As far as whacking your partner on the Gemini, if you are quite careful, right at first, you will have a great time.
It just takes a few runs to get your jibes coordinated as the front rig needs to go around first, and then the rear, but if the front takes too long, the larger rig in the back really tends to load up clew first and at some point the larger sailor on the larger rig just has to either drop the rig or sweep the boom end over the front sailor's head.
As I said, sailing the Gemini is a laugh riot and is about the max. fun two people can have windsurfing.
Most first time sailors come back laughing so hard they can hardly sail.
As far as a new board (an upgrade from your '01 Start) I'll let them know, but I have no idea whether or not they will listen.
Hope this helps,
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Old 1st July 2009, 07:14 AM   #16
rod_r
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It's a shame people can't order from a back catalogue or something similar. Besides the '01 Start, the other board I had with hidden performance was the '05 Starsurfer M....that board could really fly.

Roger, I owned 01, 02, early 03 [without starbox fin], and late 03 [with starbox fin] Starts but never went beyond 03. What do you think was the model with the most "performance mode" capabilities? Do the later Starts have any "hidden performance"?

I always thought the early 03 model was a pretty good all round board.
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Old 1st July 2009, 10:09 AM   #17
Roger
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Hi Rod,
I felt that the '01 Start had the most performance potential, that's why I'm still looking
to find a nice one.
And, yes, it would certainly be wonderful if we could order older boards that we liked.
Unfortunately, once the year model is over, they break up the molds, so there's no way to duplicate them.
Nice to hear from you,
Roger
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Old 1st July 2009, 11:45 PM   #18
Ken
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John,

Regarding free sailing, yes, I use my formula board when I can't get powered on my iSonic 111 with an 8.4 (about 12-13 knots minimum). I really perfer using my 7.6 on the 111 in 15 to 20 knots.

I am usually on my formula board when the wind is 8 to 15 knots (11.0 or 9.2). I enjoy chasing keel boats and cats when I have enough power to sail circles around them, or just blasting past the guys slogging or barely planing on smaller boards & sails.

The down side of formula boards is that they will get damaged while learning, usually by getting pulled over the front in a gust of wind, and especially while learning to run deep down wind. The mast falls on the nose of the board, creasing or breaking the skin. My first two formula boards (175 & 147) both had several dents in the nose, but so far, my 160 has survived for over two years without damage. As your skills improve, you get tossed over the front less often.

For beginners & intermediates, the outboard foot strap position on formula boards make them a bit of a challenge to get into, especially the back straps. Unlike freeride boards, you don't have the option of "an inboard location" for learning.

Last edited by Ken; 1st July 2009 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 04:03 AM   #19
johntr
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Thanks, Ken. I'm thinking of the board for me. I'll keep my 2003 Start for teaching. (I don't get tossed much any more, and I'm used to the outboard straps. In fact, the inboard straps on my Carve feel weird after so long on the wide boards.)

Thanks,
John
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