Old 14th July 2009, 07:03 AM   #11
Roger
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Hi John,
The "instructor" board gets the tether attached to the mast foot (I tie a bowline on a bight with an extra wrap around the uni joint) but the student board needs to have the tether attached to the nose.
I think both your Starts have a hole through the nose, right?
I tie another bowline on a bight through the hole in the nose, so when I want to let them loose to sail on their own, I just pull the tail on the bowline and they are free.
I use 2 lengths of 3/16 or 1/4" nylon line about 8 feet long with a 2 foot section of 3/8" bungee chord in the middle.
This tether method works great, but remember to tell your students that the instructor needs to tack slightly before the student to keep the tether from tangling in the instructors fin.
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 15th July 2009 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 29th July 2009, 04:51 AM   #12
Cathal Kavanagh
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Cathal here from Rusheenbay in Ireland
Just new on the forum and have really enjoyed reading all the different experiences of people teaching wiindsurfing

We all came up through the rya system and had the balance point as a basis of all good teaching and coaching - has this now disappeared?

We use Tushingham rigs on skinny carbon masts with light booms and therefore rig weight is as low as possible the Tushingham products are the best on the market

a great trick we use is to paddle/walk out 50 meters (150ft) and sail in to the shore for the first 3 times and then do the turn ps we do not include the turn in our demo as it is too much info

Loved the piece on the tack as we have been using this for years and it really works
we dont teach tacking until after gybing is mastered as we are in a shallow enclosed lagoon

please comment or post
Cathal
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Old 29th July 2009, 07:52 AM   #13
Roger
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Hi Cathal,
Welcome to the Starboard WS School Froum!

I'll paste in your post here as I have almost as many questions as you have :-)

"We all came up through the rya system and had the balance point as a basis of all good teaching and coaching - has this now disappeared?"
What exactly is "the balance point". Can you describe this.
We may simply have different terminology for the same thing here.

"We use Tushingham rigs on skinny carbon masts with light booms and therefore rig weight is as low as possible the Tushingham products are the best on the market."
I'd sure like to try a dedicated Tush trainer rig. I've sailed Tushinghams and they are indeed good, but I wonder how what you are using compares to the Sailworks Retro Rippers we use in the "A Taste of Windsurfing Program".
How long are your carbon masts and what size sails do you have to choose from.
We have 270-400 masts and sail sizes of 1.7; 2.5; 3.3; 4.2; and 5.0.
We have 270 Ripper Stick masts cut down for the 1.7 and 1.2 rigs.
We use some older Starboard trainer booms that are super light and have been doing
delightful service for 10 years.
Which brand is the best in the industry probably depends on where you are located.

a great trick we use is to paddle/walk out 50 meters (150ft) and sail in to the shore for the first 3 times and then do the turn ps we do not include the turn in our demo as it is too much info
Hmmm... Do you use an on shore simulator?
Do you have a crew of 2 persons that can do 25-30 students in a day.....95% of the students can move on to narrower boards and larger sails after their first 1/2 hour. on the water. We run each one individually on the simulator, and then have one instructor and usually 3 students on the water, but the first 10 min. with each student The "on the water" is normally on the tether until they show us they can sail on their own.
Then they get 20 minutes to practice on their own.

Loved the piece on the tack as we have been using this for years and it really works
we dont teach tacking until after gybing is mastered as we are in a shallow enclosed lagoon
We have always taught tacking first, and we teach it on the 7-12 minutes on the simulator so the students know how to tack before they go on the water.
We only allow students to gybe if they show us that they really have full control, can stay upwind well, and can return to the same place they launched from.
The way we teach tacking (with power, and the foot of the sail all the way down on the deck at the rear) they have no real issues with tacking.
Teaching them to gybe too soon creates 2 situations that give the instructors some issues.
First, if they can only gybe, they normally end up fairly far downwind.
Secondly, they have almost no control in a gybe as the board accelerates as they turn off the wind. Not a problem is there's plenty of room and no one else around, but big issues if we have to chase them downwind, or if there is alot of other "traffic" in the area.

I do not wish to start any sort of "contest" here, but Ellen and I have taught a whole lot of students, and the methods we have developed really work for us.
We do not do "group" lessons as we have found that personal attention, during that first
critical 5-15 minutes (both on the simulator and on the water) is critical to student success.
Hope this helps,

Last edited by Roger; 17th January 2010 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 16th January 2010, 10:18 PM   #14
AndreM
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I am considering buying a 2009 GO 155 or 175 for my family.

Will the iDO work with these boards too? I read about the need to use screws to connect to the board or is that just optional?
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Old 17th January 2010, 12:57 AM   #15
ricochet
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Bonjour Andre,
At the APVM ( Monbtreal Windsurfing association, we found that the iDO did not have to be scrwed on the sides as log as the sail was a kid's rig less then 2.2 meters. As the iDo has 2 sets of bolts at the bottom of the base, it will give you a good hold of the rig.

For the stability of the board with the iDO, I would recommand the 175 lt. The more buoyancy you will have for your board, the more

Have a nice day, and BON VENT ( Good Wind ). Eric Gouin Président APVM
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Old 17th January 2010, 10:40 PM   #16
Roger
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Hi Andre M,
I'll defer to Eric from APVM here.
I have never been given an IDO to try out, so I have no experience with it.
I still maintain that good instruction combined with a tether system for instructor
control will get newbies up and sailing sooner than something like the IDO.
Also, the IDO can result in the board (with or without the sailor on board) sailing off
on it's own, so some sort of rescue craft is pretty much mandatory if you are using the IDO.
See Ellen's comments from her experience with the IDO last year.
Also, are you considering that the GO 155 or 175 does not have a centerboard or provision for a center fin. The older GO boards had optional side fins that provided "rig steering" for absolute beginners, but the current catalogue does not suggest that the new GO boards have this option.
This being the case, for absolute beginners, the Rio or Start, with a centerboard, might be better for the beginners in your family.
Especially for the really young lightweight sailors, foot steering is quite difficult and they are pushed downwind because there is no center fin to provide lateral directionality and also rig steering.
Hope this helps,
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Old 17th January 2010, 11:40 PM   #17
AndreM
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hmmmm... thank you. I thought the GO 155/175 did have an extra center fin position. Apparently wrong. As my kids are 13 en 15 they should be able to learn on something else than a Start or Rio but an extra fin (on the daggerboard position so to say) would be handy...

My aim is to get my family enthousiastic for windsurfing with a board that is not too hard to learn on but will not be too dull too soon. there fore: GO144/155/175... Any suggestions what to do next? I plan to surf in shallow water (1 meter) Btw. I bought a Loft Sails Spark 3.2 for my family last year. I did not work out with the narrow Bic Samba.

Furthermore are the Start and Rio the only boards that can use an iDO with the extra bolds or are there other boards that cater for the extra lateral rigidity by extra bolds.?
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Old 18th January 2010, 08:48 AM   #18
Roger
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Hi AndreM,
I think the IDO will fit on almost any board with a mast slot in it.
My guess would be the 2 bolts are in a line down the center of the board
like Deviator or Chinook 2 bolt bases.
You might look for an older Go (make sure you can find the side fins for it) or perhaps an early Start with the center fin box where you can install whatever fin you like (anything with a Tuttle head).
And, you can put a big sail on the old Start and have one of the earliest planing boards on the planet.
If your kids did not take to the Loft 3.2 m2 rig on the Bic Samba, then getting something wider is for sure your best option.
Please read over the instructional posts earlier in the thread.
If you follow them very closely, you probably do not need the IDO.
If you need further clarification, I will be glad to provide what ever I can.
Hope this helps,
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Old 19th January 2010, 01:21 AM   #19
ricochet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreM View Post
hmmmm... thank you. I thought the GO 155/175 did have an extra center fin position. Apparently wrong. As my kids are 13 en 15 they should be able to learn on something else than a Start or Rio but an extra fin (on the daggerboard position so to say) would be handy...

My aim is to get my family enthousiastic for windsurfing with a board that is not too hard to learn on but will not be too dull too soon. there fore: GO144/155/175... Any suggestions what to do next? I plan to surf in shallow water (1 meter) Btw. I bought a Loft Sails Spark 3.2 for my family last year. I did not work out with the narrow Bic Samba.

Furthermore are the Start and Rio the only boards that can use an iDO with the extra bolds or are there other boards that cater for the extra lateral rigidity by extra bolds.?
Bonjour Andre,
at 13 and 15 of age, I feel you do not need the iDO. Kids rig are now easy enough to handle for young teen agers. I understand your dilemma to get them to enjoy windsurfing with the proper board and to be able to use this board for many years after , as they improve. One option you may have would be to rent a very stable board.There might me a renting place in your region that offers rental service. Most of the teen agers we tought windsurfing had out growned their big stable board ( 200 lt, wide beginner style) in less then 4 to 5 sessions. Thats way, once your kids are confortable with the basic of windsurfing, you could get a family board like the GO.


To come back to the iDO. Our club uses it mostly on the Gemini Tandem, to itinitiate very young kids or kids who have a physical weakness. We do not use the iDO as a long term training tool, as it does not react exactly as a normal sail does. But for a 3 to 4 year old kids , the first 30 minutes puts as big smile on their face.
When we put it on a single mast track board ( like on one of our Start fleet ) we always make certain we have an onshore wind , a very small sail, and less then 8 knots wind, and we always have someone on the water following that kid.

But for your teen agers, a simple good initiation session will do the work, as they obviously have the energy and strengh for it.

Hope me advise are usefull.
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