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Old 21st January 2010, 08:21 PM   #1
Tmac
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Default Fin For Futura

Hi Roger

I have submit a Q. in the ''ask our team'' forum.Could not get any answer so far.I doubt the type of probem might be relevant with this forum.

The header is similar Fin for futura.Post date January 17.th.Post by Tmac.

Could you please be so kind and check it from ask our team forum.

I am waiting to get a proper answer in order to buy my fins.

So ant help will be precious for me

thanks
Tmac
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Old 21st January 2010, 09:13 PM   #2
Roger
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Hi TMac,
Quite a complex question.
I'm late for work at the moment.
Will work on an answer this evening when I have more time.
R
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Old 23rd January 2010, 08:04 AM   #3
Tmac
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Hi Roger

Considering that you are busy let me try to simplfy the topic.That may save your time.

1-Tectonics talon fins or any better suggestion that works in flatwater conditions with Futura better + fin size for F 111/F133

2-NP Hellcat 7,2m. Is it the equivalent of 7,5 V8 or 8,0 V8 or 8,5 V8 or such a comparison make no sense?

I guess it is a little bit simplified.

Tmac

Ps:Remi send a message that refers to C3 venon I read the post about C3 venon befor submit my question but there was not sufficient detail.Especially any size indication.
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Old 23rd January 2010, 12:20 PM   #4
Roger
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Hi Tmac,
OK, looks like you got some responses.
Here's your original post, I'll try to work on each section individually:
I have regular Drake fins and been told if want to increase performance in terms of speed need specialised fins for that purpose.

There is many fin brand/type. Select;Deboichet.Tectonics,Maui etc.A pro windsurfer recommended me strongly Tectonics Talon fins.

1-Are Talon ideal type of gear for my equipment or other type of tectonics or any other kind fin suits most?
Tectonics are certainly good, and the Talon is just one model.
http://www.tectonicsmaui.com/
Looks like the Talon is Dennis Partons "latest and greatest" but you need to get on a waiting list to get one.
Since you are not racing slalom at a pro level, I think some of the other Tectonics fins might work almost as well, without the wait.
Try one of Wolfgang Lessachers 15 deg. LE fins. If they are anything like his Duo assymetrical weed fins, they will be fast and you probably won't be able to spin one out.

2-What fin length should be for above board and sails as I am planning to buy 2 fins for each board?
If you plan to use the stock fins in your quiver of fins, I would look for a fin 4 cm smaller and 4 cm larger for each board.
Smaller is to go fast in windy conditions, larger is to get planing earlier when the stock fin won't quite get it done.

For the time being I am stuck about 30 knots max .It is the limit I could not pass beyond last season.I expect with Futura I could achieve 33-34 knots at least.I was using F111 with Drake 38 fin.Maybe need a smaller one?
30 knots on a 38 cm fin is pretty darn fast. I'd try a 34 and 32 on the same board with half to a meter smaller rig.

3-Last confusing topic.Read somewhere that on same conditions using no cam instead od cam sail you have to rig 1-1,2 m. smaller in order to sail without owerpowered.E.g. sailnig V8 7,5 m comfortably and if you want switch nocam ( NP Solo) you have to use 6/ 6,5 m.
This "ratio" (1-1.2 m2 smaller) does not make sense to me.
I agree with Ken, a well designed no cam (like the Sailworks Retro) can be sailed pretty much size for size (this has been proven many times on race courses in the Gorge).
Other brands may differ, and a good 4 cam top of the line "no expense spared" race sail will definitely be a little more stable and user friendly in really overpowering conditions or when you want to go super fast.

I know cam sails are more forgiving during gust and covers a bigger windrange without changing the sail vs nocamsails. but is the difference really such big?

The wind range is actually better overall on a good no-cam like the Retro. It has a wider tuning range and can give you much better low end power that a dedicated race sail because it can be tuned for a greater range of conditions without taking away from the top end performance.

I have a Hellcat 7,2.In that sense what is the equivalent cam sail of my 7,2?
V8 7,5/8.0/ 8,5 ?Could not get any satisfactory answer experienced windsurfer around.

No one can really answer that question...... It totally depends on how you rig the sail.
To the specs, on the right mast, outside the specs to get more top or bottom end.
What ever you do, the range is not going to be much more than 7.0-7.5 equivalent.
Hope this helps,
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Old 23rd January 2010, 12:30 PM   #5
Roger
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Tmac,
The fast guys (pro level) are all going really fast on whatever fins they are sponsored
by.
C3 Venoms are fast, Tectonics Talons are fast, Deboichet has some very fast slalom models (not the Starboard Debs), Lessacher makes some really fast fins.
You cannot necessarily "BUY" speed.
You can buy all the pieces and still be slow, or you can tune what you have to get the most from it, and maybe be very nearly as fast as you would be on untuned and unbalanced top of the line gear.
The sailor makes fast gear fast (or faster) by lots of TOW and tuning.
You need to tune the rig, have the right spars, get the right fins, figure out where the fastest mast foot position is, then you can start tuning the sailor to make it all balance better so you can go faster.
You could spend a ton of money and still be slow. Good stuff, that works for the pros, is usually a bit easier to tune correctly, but do not suppose that you can buy a top of the line race sail, top of the line Tectonics Talon fin, put them on your Futuras and go out and beat iSonics with better sailors on them. It's not going to happen.
Unless you become a pro windsurfer and spend more than half your life on the water tuning and learning, you will always watch the guys who are at that level with a certain awe. They are indeed awesome and they make going fast and winning races look so easy.
It's not!
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:27 AM   #6
Tmac
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Default Fin for futura

Hi Roger

Thanks for all the answers.Some points are quite clear for me.
I will look for C3 venom fins.Do not much about Lessacer fins never heard before that mail exchange.Will try to get some more detail.

I'll sail with a smaller fin in order to increase personal top speed and see the result.

Thanks for all the answers given by other sailors.Each information is appreciated.

all the best
Tmac
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Old 5th February 2010, 10:16 PM   #7
Lessacher
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I must smile, You cannot hear so much from me. I work allone, only carbon fins, and when
I write something here, no answer, okay its no problem for me. That what I work is outside of the box. Doubleasymm. fins for both tacks, such a nons.....
And a cut out at the base, and no spin outs, and fast. And now that: 50 knots topspeed
GPS with Thomas Döblin with such a fin. And sorry, he is good, but a weekend Windsurfer.
I work day and night fins,when I write here something, than will I help and notmake money.
Wolfgang
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Old 6th February 2010, 10:42 PM   #8
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http://www.designlessacher.com
He's really an enthusiast!
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Old 7th February 2010, 05:34 AM   #9
Tmac
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Default fin for futura

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessacher View Post
I must smile, You cannot hear so much from me. I work allone, only carbon fins, and when
I write something here, no answer, okay its no problem for me. That what I work is outside of the box. Doubleasymm. fins for both tacks, such a nons.....
And a cut out at the base, and no spin outs, and fast. And now that: 50 knots topspeed
GPS with Thomas Döblin with such a fin. And sorry, he is good, but a weekend Windsurfer.
I work day and night fins,when I write here something, than will I help and notmake money.
Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang

Your name sounds like German if I am right and you if You express your self better in German please feel free to answer in German.
Your message was a little technical and not quite clear for me.So, I was not sure it was a too technical expert type sailor fin or incl. amateur surfers like me.So, It was kind of apologise not writing back Wolfgang

Let me try to explaine what I am looking for.I am not completely focused on speed.First prıority is to enjoy windsurfing without loosing much the confort zone.Considering that main idea of course I will improve my best speed just for my own fun.
A Shallower cutout,no spinouts+fast all sound fantastic.
Could you please tell me your fins are as userfriendly as Dreake fins or Tectonics or Mfc?
Are your fins suıtable to use with Starboard Futura?
No difference in gybe than usual fins?

If the answers are yes I would say I am very much interested with your fins.
Where I am sailing the water is really shallow in some areas and tha angel of your fins means less depth requirement.

I have F 111 and 133 and consider to add a F 93.What size of your fins will be ok for my Boards?

rgds
Tmac
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:38 PM   #10
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Hallo Tmac! I am from Austria, but very long years in Germany, Ruhrgebiet.
Oberhausen. 100m to Essen. I am 68 years old or young. Windsurfing since 39 years.
The most weekends in Netherland for windsurfing and testing fins. Weed and shallow water.
The Rake 30° fin is fast, downwind easy to use, upwind very good. Userfriendly ?
My fins make no spin outs, know you the feeling, to be free in your head? There I work
in 100% carbon is the reaction faster. For 111 is 28cm , she is 35cm long.
For 133 is 35cm , she is 43cm long.
For 93 is 25cm, she is 31cm long.
All 3 have Tuttlebox. All other boxes are no problem for me.
Tuttle normal or deep. Powerbox. Trimbox. US Box. Tiga box 2 screws or for wave with
only one screw. I can send you fins for testing, than yes or no. No problem for me.
If you want something, mail me. Wolfgang
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